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Modern Vim

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Re: Modern Vim

#31

Post by jlgreco »

steevdave wrote: post #29
kamaal wrote: post #27

We don't need a book. We need a vim installer that can do all those things which you will have to otherwise spend time and work endless hours customizing vim to do. The reason why people move to modern GUI based editors is those editors do many things out of the box which you have to otherwise spend time learning and then do it.

I've been using the same vimrc (and gvimrc) for at least 4 years (minor tweaks when something breaks, of course). But 99% of the time, it's identical and set up exactly how I like it, versus the magical GUI IDEs that change where options are, or what they are called. I don't have time for that (and I use the same vimrc on windows, Mac and Linux). Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done.

>But once it's done, it's done.

And I think that right there is the reason such a tool will never truly catch on. (Nearly) everyone who currently uses Vim wouldn't use it. It is why things like Cream never caught on I think; there really is not as much demand as some people think.

Re: Modern Vim

#32

Post by jamesrcole »

steevdave wrote: post #29
kamaal wrote: post #27

We don't need a book. We need a vim installer that can do all those things which you will have to otherwise spend time and work endless hours customizing vim to do. The reason why people move to modern GUI based editors is those editors do many things out of the box which you have to otherwise spend time learning and then do it.

I've been using the same vimrc (and gvimrc) for at least 4 years (minor tweaks when something breaks, of course). But 99% of the time, it's identical and set up exactly how I like it, versus the magical GUI IDEs that change where options are, or what they are called. I don't have time for that (and I use the same vimrc on windows, Mac and Linux). Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done.

> Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done

Are you trying to argue that it could not be made quicker and easier, and that there'd be no benefit to making it quicker and easier?

I think Vim is great and if, as seems the case, a lot of people are put off it because of the large amounts of up-front effort it requires, then anything which helps lessen that initial effort is a good thing in my books.

I think it's a shame that there's often a kinda moralising attitude towards this issue - as if the present level of up-front effort is how things should be, and if, for whatever reason, you aren't prepared to put up with it, then they're not a "Vim person".

Re: Modern Vim

#33

Post by johncoltrane »

jamesrcole wrote: post #32
steevdave wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using the same vimrc (and gvimrc) for at least 4 years (minor tweaks when something breaks, of course). But 99% of the time, it's identical and set up exactly how I like it, versus the magical GUI IDEs that change where options are, or what they are called. I don't have time for that (and I use the same vimrc on windows, Mac and Linux). Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done.

> Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done Are you trying to argue that it could not be made quicker and easier, and that there'd be no benefit to making it quicker and easier? I think Vim is great and if, as seems the case, a lot of people are put off it because of the large amounts of up-front effort it requires, then anything which helps lessen that initial effort is a good thing in my b…

Why should I care how many people switch to Vim? Or that some people are put off by the up-front effort you speak off?

Switching from a modern GUI editor to another is easy because they are all more or less the same. Switching from a modern GUI editor to Vim is hard because they are fundamentally different. Why even trying to switch if one doesn't recognize the need to put some effort into it?

Re: Modern Vim

#34

Post by johncoltrane »

jlgreco wrote: post #31
steevdave wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using the same vimrc (and gvimrc) for at least 4 years (minor tweaks when something breaks, of course). But 99% of the time, it's identical and set up exactly how I like it, versus the magical GUI IDEs that change where options are, or what they are called. I don't have time for that (and I use the same vimrc on windows, Mac and Linux). Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done.

>But once it's done, it's done. And I think that right there is the reason such a tool will never truly catch on. (Nearly) everyone who currently uses Vim wouldn't use it. It is why things like Cream never caught on I think; there really is not as much demand as some people think.

Vim has become very popular recently and it seems that a lot of people want to use it right away. I REALLY think that it's a bad idea but, judging by the popularity of things like Janus, SPF13 or the many "ultimate vim configs" I would say there's a demand for turn key solutions.

Re: Modern Vim

#35

Post by jdhore »

kamaal wrote: post #27

We don't need a book. We need a vim installer that can do all those things which you will have to otherwise spend time and work endless hours customizing vim to do. The reason why people move to modern GUI based editors is those editors do many things out of the box which you have to otherwise spend time learning and then do it.

The problem is (at least with Vim), a installer/good default set of plugins and vimrc is VERY subjective.

Myself and 2 other guys from #vim on Freenode tried doing this a few years ago, but it wound up failing because we couldn't decide on that perfect set of stuff to put in it. Perhaps the idea would be more successful if there was only one developer to make decisions, but...

Re: Modern Vim

#36

Post by jamesrcole »

johncoltrane wrote: post #33
jamesrcole wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure the initial set up is difficult. But once it's done, it's done Are you trying to argue that it could not be made quicker and easier, and that there'd be no benefit to making it quicker and easier? I think Vim is great and if, as seems the case, a lot of people are put off it because of the large amounts of up-front effort it requires, then anything which helps lessen that initial effort is a good thing in my b…

Why should I care how many people switch to Vim? Or that some people are put off by the up-front effort you speak off? Switching from a modern GUI editor to another is easy because they are all more or less the same. Switching from a modern GUI editor to Vim is hard because they are fundamentally different. Why even trying to switch if one doesn't recognize the need to put some effort into it?

> Why should I care how many people switch to Vim?

That's up to you.

I think Vim is more productive, and I'd like to see more people getting that benefit from it.

Re: Modern Vim

#37

Post by johncoltrane »

jamesrcole wrote: post #36
johncoltrane wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care how many people switch to Vim? Or that some people are put off by the up-front effort you speak off? Switching from a modern GUI editor to another is easy because they are all more or less the same. Switching from a modern GUI editor to Vim is hard because they are fundamentally different. Why even trying to switch if one doesn't recognize the need to put some effort into it?

> Why should I care how many people switch to Vim? That's up to you. I think Vim is more productive, and I'd like to see more people getting that benefit from it.

I think that Vim is more productive too but that's only my opinion and I have no desire to force this opinion on anybody else. If a non-Vimmer is curious I'll happily answer is questions and give her pointers but I'll certainly not be proactive about it. I have no stake in this.
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