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Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

docs.carbon-lang.dev

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Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#31

Post by kibwen »

flohofwoe wrote: post #9
mihaic wrote: post #6

It's become a pet peeve of mine, but for the love of God, if anyone with input in Carbon is scanning this, what can be done to use "func" instead of "fn" as a keyword? That all-consonant keyword always makes it seem like I'm reading Hungarian notation when reading Rust for instance. An other options I've seen for instance in Pony, "fun", is already an English word with a completely different meaning. Even the "functi…

Tbh, I wonder why modern languages still have a function keyword at all, e.g.: const add = (a: i32, b: i32): i32 => a + b; ...or any variation of the arrow-function idea...

It's the other way around. Modern languages and grammars use explicit leading keywords to clearly indicate what sort of context they're about to parse, rather than blindly forging ahead in a superposition while waiting for some future sequence of tokens to clarify what the context is.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#32

Post by bhawks »

mihaic wrote: post #6

It's become a pet peeve of mine, but for the love of God, if anyone with input in Carbon is scanning this, what can be done to use "func" instead of "fn" as a keyword? That all-consonant keyword always makes it seem like I'm reading Hungarian notation when reading Rust for instance. An other options I've seen for instance in Pony, "fun", is already an English word with a completely different meaning. Even the "functi…

Since interop is such a big design goal I wonder if fn was chosen after analyzing the impact of alternative keywords present in large c++ code based that would impact interop in a negative way (eg requiring more escaping).

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#33

Post by gpderetta »

darksaints wrote: post #22

I remember back when Rust was still in so much flux that there were regular discussions about syntax, and there was a proposal very similar to the syntax of carbon: square brackets for generics and type annotations, parens for indexing, etc. It was basically turned down because they wanted to win over C++ devs. I still wish it was the favored outcome...it looks so much cleaner and less jarring.

The joke is that no* c++ dev actually likes the bracket syntax for templates.

* I might be slightly exaggerating.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#34

Post by Animats »

"Longer term, we will build on this to introduce a safe Carbon subset. This will be a large and complex undertaking, and won’t be in the 0.1 design."

If they can't get safety right at the design stage, they'll never get it right. We already have D and Zig in this space.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#35

Post by Arnavion »

self_awareness wrote: post #29

It's strange that they sometimes use [] to specify a type, other times they use (). That doesn't look very consistent to me. I like the use of [] though, it reminds me of Scala, which I liked before they did the scala 3 fork.

`fn partition[T: ...]` uses `[]` to define T. `s: Slice(T)` uses `(T)` to invoke the type constructor `Slice` with the type argument T. So you could say that's fine because these are different operations.

But then defining a type constructor itself still uses `()`, like `class UnsafeAllowDelete(T:! Concrete) { ... }`. It does seem somewhat inconsistent.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#36

Post by bla3 »

IshKebab wrote: post #28
nxobject wrote: post #5

If you've seen this before, it's worth looking at the 2025 roadmap – it's long-term work, a full safety story hasn't been quite figured out (TBD end 2025), and 0.1 is TBD end 2026. About the pace of Rust, although without the active forum that Rust had in its early days. https://docs.carbon-lang.dev/docs/project/roadmap.html What _is_ interesting is that I get the impression that Carbon is being workshopped with the…

> being workshopped with the C++ community Honestly seems like a dubious idea. The C++ community that remains are even more "just get good" than before. They still think UB all over the place is fine.

I think that might be true of the language committee, but there's presumably a huge crowd of people with existing c++ code bases that would like to have a different path forward than just hoping that the committee changes priorities.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#37

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

treyd wrote: post #26
mihaic wrote: post #6

It's become a pet peeve of mine, but for the love of God, if anyone with input in Carbon is scanning this, what can be done to use "func" instead of "fn" as a keyword? That all-consonant keyword always makes it seem like I'm reading Hungarian notation when reading Rust for instance. An other options I've seen for instance in Pony, "fun", is already an English word with a completely different meaning. Even the "functi…

What's wrong with fn? It's perfectly understandable. I don't understand what the bikeshedding about keywords like this is about.

I don't even code in kotlin but I know that kotlin has function as fun :P

Such small things as using __ __ in python and small inconveniences (lua's 1 instead of 0) really has a lot of people, what do I say.. yea, polarized on this matter.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#38

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

lvass wrote: post #17
mihaic wrote: post #6

It's become a pet peeve of mine, but for the love of God, if anyone with input in Carbon is scanning this, what can be done to use "func" instead of "fn" as a keyword? That all-consonant keyword always makes it seem like I'm reading Hungarian notation when reading Rust for instance. An other options I've seen for instance in Pony, "fun", is already an English word with a completely different meaning. Even the "functi…

I use emacs' prettify-symbol mode to turn every language's function keyword into ʩ. Don't think I incurred in God's wrath just yet.

Why not just write it as fun, that way you are having fun while writing a function just as (God intended,[pun intended]) :P

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#39

Post by wocram »

nxobject wrote: post #5

If you've seen this before, it's worth looking at the 2025 roadmap – it's long-term work, a full safety story hasn't been quite figured out (TBD end 2025), and 0.1 is TBD end 2026. About the pace of Rust, although without the active forum that Rust had in its early days. https://docs.carbon-lang.dev/docs/project/roadmap.html What _is_ interesting is that I get the impression that Carbon is being workshopped with the…

Carbon is just trying to bring a rust-like edition to cpp, there's no reason for non cpp users to Carbon.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#40

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Zig seems like a better approach but I still remember the carbon C killer video from fireship before that channel was bought by vc funding and turned into AI slop news reporter most likely using AI.

I don't even watch fireship anymore. I actively resist the urge to. There are some other better channels like typecraft or primagen or dreams of code and so many other enthusiasts, there is this one bash guy that I watch whose having fun in life doing side quests like going to gym and gardening and I am all for that too.

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