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I tried Servo

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Re: I tried Servo

#31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tops make goods money as is. All they need to do is to keep Fx the way it is. And Google won't be paying more if Firefox becomes something bigger than Chrome. Google has no interest in it. All they need is a spoiler effect.

But Google did pay Mozilla even when Firefox was bigger than Chrome.

Mozilla is simply an antitrust litigation sponge.

Google knows it shouldn't be developing a browser. This paltry pocket change protects their pane of glass moat.

Re: I tried Servo

#32

> The current roadmap lists Shadow DOM and CSS Grid as priorities I've been working on the CSS Grid support. About to land "named grid lines and areas" support which should make a bunch more websites layout correctly. I'm biased because it's my project, but IMO the approach Servo is using for CSS Grid is pretty cool in that the actual implementation is in an external library (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone an…

Does having experience implementing a web browser engine feature change the way you write HTML or CSS in any way? Do you still google "css grid cheatsheet" three times a week like the rest of us?

> Does having experience implementing a web browser engine feature change the way you write HTML or CSS in any way?

I think I'm more concious of what's performant in CSS. In particular, both Flexbox and CSS Grid like to remeasure things a lot by default, but this can be disabled with a couple of tricks:

- For Flexbox, always set `flex-basis: 0` and `min-width: 0`/`min-height: 0` if you can without affecting the layout. This allows the algorithm to skip measuring the "intrisic" (content-based) size.

- For CSS Grid, the analogous trick is to use `minmax(0, 1fr)` rather than just `1fr`.

(I also have a proposal for a new unit that would make it easier to get this performance by default, but I haven't managed to get any traction from the standards people or mainstream browsers yet - probably I need to implement it and write it up first).

> Do you still google "css grid cheatsheet" three times a week like the rest of us?

Actually no. The process of reading the spec umpteen times because your implementation still doesn't pass the tests after the first N times really ingrains the precise meanings of the properties into your brain

Re: I tried Servo

#33

> The Dogemania test ran at a smooth 60 FPS on my M4 Pro MacBook Pro until reaching around 400 images I ran Dogemania on Chrome until 1400 images at steady 60 FPS at which point I got bored and closed the tab.

If dogemania keeps the images still after animation isn't it embarrassingly optimizable? Why cant an Amiga do infinity of these?

Re: I tried Servo

#34

It's still baffling to me that Mozilla threw out Firefox's technical future Very little about Mozilla makes sense --- until you follow the money.

The string of departures and how people communicated around them let me think it’s something a lot less nefarious: Mozilla looked like an extremely political company at the time. Servo was extremely good at communication with their very frequent news letter and Rust had a lot of wind in its sails, I wouldn’t be surprised if that ruffled the wrong feathers. Mozilla is very much still managed by what remains of its old…

That would be pure incompetence from the top

For which they are compensated very well.

It just doesn't make sense does it?

Re: I tried Servo

#35
> the MacRumors home page crashed after some scrolling

I know there’s a ton going on, with GPUs and rendering and all kinds of things, but I guess because Rust’s memory safety and “no null pointers!” are so constantly hyped (especially in conversations about Go), that I’m always surprised when you fire up a Rust app and do something and it crashes out…

[To be clear, I’m a big fan of modern sum types, and like to imagine an alternate reality where Go had them from the start…]

Re: I tried Servo

#36

It's still baffling to me that Mozilla threw out Firefox's technical future Very little about Mozilla makes sense --- until you follow the money.

I still strongly believe Servo can be a real counterpoint to Chrome/Chromium's hegemony in the long haul. Not sure why Mozilla ditched it nor why The Linux Foundation gives little to no support at all to it.

WebKit is a nice competitor, too. Look at Orion browser, it's a pretty decent competitor. Although they only target macOS, WebKit can be used on Windows and Linux, too.

Re: I tried Servo

#37

> The current roadmap lists Shadow DOM and CSS Grid as priorities I've been working on the CSS Grid support. About to land "named grid lines and areas" support which should make a bunch more websites layout correctly. I'm biased because it's my project, but IMO the approach Servo is using for CSS Grid is pretty cool in that the actual implementation is in an external library (Taffy [0]) that can be used standalone an…

Do you not worry that instead it will lead to feature bloat and fragmentation? If you’re going to strike at Google, you need laser focus.

Re: I tried Servo

#38
post #23

While it's hard to know what comes of it, there is also https://ladybird.org/ to challenge to monopoly of Blink.

I just don't get the point of ladybird. They have full time engineers and are soliciting donations, so it's clearly more than a hobby project. Maybe my assumptions are off, but I just can't imagine they could ever become competitive in terms of features, security and performance with the big engines. Blink is setting the pace, Webkit is barely able to keep up and Gecko is slowly falling behind. All of these teams are…

What's wrong with Webkit? It's super fast. I tested Orion browser recently.

Re: I tried Servo

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still strongly believe Servo can be a real counterpoint to Chrome/Chromium's hegemony in the long haul. Not sure why Mozilla ditched it nor why The Linux Foundation gives little to no support at all to it.

Because Mozilla benefits from Google's donations (the majority comes from Google), and being a counterpoint to Google's Chrome is bad for Google, which means less or no donations to Mozilla. Google holds the key here. They have leverage over Mozilla.

They don't get donations from Google, but get paid to include Google as the default search engine, right?

No important difference though. Mozilla tried to switch to Yahoo a few years back and backpedaled. In terms of what users expect, they don't have a lot of options. Google OTOH could do without the users Firefox has left. And I've personally observed Google strong arm "partners". Not sure I see a conspiracy here, but I'm pretty sure that if Google asks for concessions, Mozilla will see what they can do.

Re: I tried Servo

#40
post #35

> the MacRumors home page crashed after some scrolling I know there’s a ton going on, with GPUs and rendering and all kinds of things, but I guess because Rust’s memory safety and “no null pointers!” are so constantly hyped (especially in conversations about Go), that I’m always surprised when you fire up a Rust app and do something and it crashes out… [To be clear, I’m a big fan of modern sum types, and like to imag…

When they say "it crashed" they probably mean it panicked or just failed to render; not a segfault.

Most languages have a way of saying "I haven't handled this case yet; just exit the program if you get here".

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