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Claude Code is a slot machine

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Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#31

Post by aaronbrethorst »

tptacek wrote: post #7

I didn't become a software developer so I could write the same SQL queries, the same plumbing code, the same boilerplate beginnings of programs, the same repetitive error handling, the same string formatting, the same report generation, the same HTML templating, and the same thread cancellation logic. I also didn't become a programmer so I could gratify myself by yak-shaving elegant helpers for those SQL queries, plu…

I worked on visual studio at Microsoft 20 years ago, and once had the opportunity to go to a trade show to represent the company.

While I was manning a booth, this software developer came up to me and said VS had gotten too good at code generation to automate data access, and we should cut it out because that was the vast majority of what he did. I thought he was joking, but no, he was totally serious.

I said something to him about how those tools were saving him from having to do boring, repetitive work so that he could focus on higher value, more interesting development, instead, but he wasn’t having it.

I think about him quite often, especially these days. I wonder if he’s still programming, and what he thinks about LLMs

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#32

Post by tcoff91 »

ChadNauseam wrote: post #23
Disposal8433 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice that you have all those wonderful experiences with LLMs. But for once in your life, could you show us the code? Because you look like yet another cheerleader that have nothing to show, and it's annoying.

Sure. I'll show something. I'm working on an app to help teach myself french. I work at a busy startup so I only have a few hours to spare here and there, but I've managed to make an app that works very well for me, mainly because of the help I receive from Claude Code. I can't make the github repo public because it contains some copyright material [^1]. but maybe I'll make a censored version public if there's intere…

Site isn’t working for me on iOS safari.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#33

Post by nicce »

gronglo wrote: post #20

> but if you want it all to actually work, you'll need to dive into the details eventually. I don't think that's true. I'm wondering if the author has tried Claude 4 Opus.

I have just fought 4 days with Claude 4 Sonnet because it generates too much garbage for my usage, and I am considering stopping the AI usage altogether. No matter what system prompt, rules et. all you give, they don't want to do as I said, but instead do something which compiles (Rust) but is not performant or is extremely verbose and includes all kinds of unnecessary things. They have too much assumptions that some function is used/not used in async context, or it is okay to clone, or whatever. Is the Opus really that big leap?

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#34

Post by AlecSchueler »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #10

I think much like how we're still figuring out how to use and manage social media to minimize the downsides and maximize its utility, we're gonna have to do the same with AI. I find it incredibly powerful for certain things and incredibly frustrating for others. Begging the AI to one shot some project feels like the wrong way to use it, it's better as a scalpel. Or as a learning device, or a more advanced rubber duck…

> we're still figuring out how to use and manage social media to minimize the downsides and maximize its utility

Considering the state of today's social media landscape and people's relationship to it, this fills me with dread.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#35

Post by misja111 »

> AI coding tools supercharge this, allowing you to bring whole machineries to life by waving your hands around, offloading the understanding for much longer

I guess you could use them like that, but you'll do much better if you try to get an understanding of the problem beforehand. This way you can divide the problem into subtasks with reasonably clear description, that Claude will be able to handle without getting lost and without needing too many corrections.

Also, you'll still need to understand pretty much every task that Claude has implemented. It frequently makes mistakes or does things in a suboptimal way.

When you use AI properly it's a great tool, it's like an IDE on steroids. But it won't take away the need to use your brains.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#36

Post by qsort »

tptacek wrote: post #7

I didn't become a software developer so I could write the same SQL queries, the same plumbing code, the same boilerplate beginnings of programs, the same repetitive error handling, the same string formatting, the same report generation, the same HTML templating, and the same thread cancellation logic. I also didn't become a programmer so I could gratify myself by yak-shaving elegant helpers for those SQL queries, plu…

I think I partially agree, your first paragraph is exactly how I feel. Boilerplate and trivial stuff absolutely should be automated. It's also true that people have been pushing a narrative where programming is some dark art and you should use Methodology X or Theory Y. Bro, chill, you're writing a website.

On the other hand software development in the high sense, i.e. producing solutions for actual problems that real people have, is certainly intellectually demanding and also something that allows for several standard deviations in skill level. It's fashionable to claim we all have bullshit jobs, but I don't think that's a fair description at all.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#37

Post by troupo »

ggandhi wrote: post #13

Lovable, I feel, works at a higher abstraction layer. The unpredictability of whether my prompt will generate something delightful in that initial design creates an addictive slot machine dynamic. But would these tools lose their magic if the results became completely deterministic?

> But would these tools lose their magic if the results became completely deterministic?

No. They would become extremely useful and more magical. Because instead of weird incantations and shamanic rituals of "just one more .rules file, bro, I swear" you could create useful reproducible working tools.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#38

Post by shortrounddev2 »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #26
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never allow ai to write code, certainly not unsupervised. I like to write some code and then have claude check my work. Not just for bugs, but for architecture and style as well.

I let it write boilerplate, or other low impact stuff like html/css. It worked nicely converting Svelte components from Svelte 4 to 5 for example. And AI autocomplete has been a genuine productivity win although not without the occasional subtle bug. But I can't imagine trusting it for an entire codebase. If you're letting the AI write your code you're not thinking about it deeply enough to critique it imo. Which is…

I stopped using copilot because it kept writing really bad c++. It's great at python and Javascript. This was a year or so ago so maybe its better now

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#39

Post by misja111 »

smokel wrote: post #27
Disposal8433 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nice that you have all those wonderful experiences with LLMs. But for once in your life, could you show us the code? Because you look like yet another cheerleader that have nothing to show, and it's annoying.

You touch upon an interesting phenomenon that is quite pervasive throughout the world of software development, and possibly many other fields as well. To avoid heated discussions, allow me to illustrate the concept with why enterprise software is mainly built with Java, whereas most blog posts are about writing backends with TypeScript, Python, or Rust. The reason for this is at least twofold: 1. Professional program…

As someone who has been using Java for enterprise software for over 25 years, but who likes to program his pet projects in Python, let me give you another reason:

3. Python has a very fast feedback loop. You type, run and see the result immediately. This is great for small projects and prototypes. Java needs much more work, not just for the compiling but it also needs more boilerplate. This is fine for enterprise projects which typically are very large and prefer stability over speed of development. But at home I don't have the time or the patience for that.

Re: Claude Code is a slot machine

#40

Post by lubujackson »

Disposal8433 wrote: post #11
itsthecourier wrote: post #2

my time coding with Claude has been the most joyful experience in my 25 years of coding. I have delivered many pet projects I always wanted to build and now focus in the operation of them. no moment in my coding life has been this productive and enlightening. pretty often I sit down to read how the ai solved the issue and learn new techniques and tools. studying a paper, discussing it with Opus, back and forth, takin…

It's nice that you have all those wonderful experiences with LLMs. But for once in your life, could you show us the code? Because you look like yet another cheerleader that have nothing to show, and it's annoying.

This is the new "Source?" comment (which, funny enough, still works).

But I don't think the code matters as much as the intention. The comment is all about exploration and learning. If you treat your LLM like a Wikipedia dive, you will come out the other end with newfound knowledge. If you only want it to achieve a discrete goal, it may or may not do so, but you will have no way to know which.

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