Steve Jobs' cabinet • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#31

Post by bigyabai » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 9:36 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #29

ary wrote: post #7

This quote comes up often in SJ biographies or anecdotes and they universally attribute it purely to aesthetic concerns. Admittedly the man cared quite a lot about "beauty", but I've always thought this was more about the caring and less about the beauty. To spend time making something most people never see look just as good as the things they do see you have to care quite a lot. This care begets a wide range of (usu…

A real estate agent walked through my house I was putting for sale. He examined the switch plates carefully. I asked why. He replied that a good craftsman lined up the slots in the top screw and bottom screw, and this was a "tell" that he'd done a good job.

Held in stark contrast to the reaction of an engineer disassembling a Macbook for repair or inspection.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#32

Post by mauvehaus » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

As a working furnituremaker, it depends on the client's budget. I try to get a sense of budget early in the design process so that I can both provide the best bang for the buck for the client and also a uniform level of quality throughout the piece. If push comes to shove, though, I'm not going to turn a job down because there isn't budget for a frame and panel back. I'm not going to turn someone's work away because they can't afford a higher-end option that nobody will ever see. That's not how to treat people with dignity.

In a couple instances, I've turned down work because the budget and expectations were wildly incompatible, but that's as simple as saying "I can't do the work you're looking for at that price." I'll offer suggestions for a more cost-effective alternative if I can. In one instance, that's turned into work down the line when the client came back with a different project with a budget more in alignment with their goals.

Lastly, while everything Nancy Hiller (RIP) has ever written is worth reading, these two pieces are highly relevant to the question of standards, budgets, and delivering the whole project.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/09/11/dont-knock-the-la...

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#33

Post by shaftway » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

tfandango wrote: post #19

delichon wrote: post #17

I finished building a cabinet for my shop last week. It holds 58 small parts cases from floor to ceiling. I didn't put a crappy piece of plywood on the back, I put three separate crappy pieces of plywood on the back. I used the worst leftover pieces that I though had the structural integrity to keep the cabinet rigid. And instead of losing sleep over it, I would have lost sleep if I had used a perfectly good large sh…

and plywood is probably the material of choice for cabinet boxes, straight, strong, not prone to warping, etc. Actually, seems crazy to use nice wood where it won't be seen.

Most importantly it's dimensionally stable. As the seasons change it won't get significantly longer in one dimension. This is most important for the back of the cabinet because it has to deal with grain going different directions, so you can't pick an orientation that will just work.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#34

Post by WillAdams » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:09 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #4

It is a little funny that car manufacturers have figured this out in a silly way. Basically, a lot of new cars are very simple and elegant when you open the hood, showing clearly fluid reservoirs, a sculpted engine, and some elegant plastic covers to tie it all together. ... but basically the plastic covers are a "second hood" with the ugliness pushed down one level. I will say that powermac G* and mac pro systems ha…

Somewhere in hell, there are a bunch of automotive engineers doing difficult maintenance tasks which they designed into vehicles such as bleeding the brakes on Ford Escorts, or spark plug changes on AMC Javelins (it actually required unbolting the engine and using a hoist to get at the last sparkplug).

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#35

Post by JKCalhoun » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:11 PM UTC

> I was reminded of what Steve Jobs, relating a lesson from his father on cabinet-making…

I confess, I found that quote from Walter Isaac's biography on Jobs to be kind of gross. It felt to me like a bullshit line that Jobs asked him to put in. By all accounts, Jobs was completely dismissive of his adoptive parents — this felt like an attempt to rewrite history by Jobs.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#36

Post by amelius » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:17 PM UTC

You can always make something more beautiful. So how do you know when to stop?

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#37

Post by wslh » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:25 PM UTC

mauvehaus wrote: post #32

As a working furnituremaker, it depends on the client's budget. I try to get a sense of budget early in the design process so that I can both provide the best bang for the buck for the client and also a uniform level of quality throughout the piece. If push comes to shove, though, I'm not going to turn a job down because there isn't budget for a frame and panel back. I'm not going to turn someone's work away because…

The same applies to software: it's common to criticize someone's work without knowing the context or the story behind the system. The typical triangle dilemma is budget, time, and quality.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#38

Post by nine_k » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:26 PM UTC

ary wrote: post #7

This quote comes up often in SJ biographies or anecdotes and they universally attribute it purely to aesthetic concerns. Admittedly the man cared quite a lot about "beauty", but I've always thought this was more about the caring and less about the beauty. To spend time making something most people never see look just as good as the things they do see you have to care quite a lot. This care begets a wide range of (usu…

This can also be seen as a way to filter the customers. "We only care about customers who care about the visual quality of the board that nobody ever sees." In other words, customers who are driven by aesthetics, and who have the means to support the habit of buying extra quality things, maybe with a whiff of conspicuous consumption.

If anything, it's a good, high-margin market. Beside the actual piece, you sell both self-appreciation and status. Apple long tried to make their products closer to fashion accessories, with some success.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#39

Post by rfrey » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:42 PM UTC

This quote could only come from somebody that knows nothing about trades. Examine any "high style" cabinet from the federal period, or any other period really. The backs of highboys are the worst, rough-sawn, uneven, knot-riddled pieces the cabinetmaker had.

A craftsman knows where to apply his effort.

Re: Steve Jobs' cabinet

#40

Post by cmsj » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 10:53 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #22

Apple device innards are made to appeal to people who have no idea about hardware engineering / repair. For the rest of us the design just screams wankery. No one who has practical experience wants to deal with black solder mask, adhesives, non-uniform screw sizes / driver kinds, lack of repair docs, proprietary ICs and underdesigned charge circuits. A macbook's innards isn't a beautiful piece of wood. It's a gaudy e…

Every time I casually chuck my iPhone onto a surface instead of gingerly placing it down with reverence and care, I think about those epoxy rims doing the job they're there to do.