No discussion about ergonomics is complete without a mention of the Svalboard[0], a spiritual successor to the DataHand you can actually purchase today.
I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user who's career has been saved by the Svalboard when no other ergonomic keyboard could.
Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
31–40 of 45 posts
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#32I kind of regret my glove80 purchase after getting on the ortholinear ergo bandwagon to replace a microsoft sculpt. It's solidly built, happy to support and I'm using it to type this currently as a sunk cost fallacy... but similar concerns re: the inner thumb clusters being difficult to reach without repositioning palms. I've mapped them as: alt and space on the inner left and alt+space (power toys search) and layer…
Glove80 is a decent ready-made product but it's simply too big. From my experience, sofle/silakka/lily58 with tenting solution worked better since they have smaller thumb cluster and surface but still takes advantage of same structure.
The ones I listed are well open sourced and modularized, you can print out parts as you go - trackpad, trackball, tilting pad, joystick whatever you want.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#33Reading reviews of this type of keyboard is really interesting to me because their use is such a subjective experience. I have found that the glove80 has far and away the most comfortable thumb cluster for my hands as well as the most comfortable positioning for my pinkies. I couldn’t make the corne variants work because tucking my thumbs hurt. The ergodox is too big. Even a keyboard like the ZSA Voyager just doesn’t…
Recommendations for making a keyboard heatmap?
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#34I kind of regret my glove80 purchase after getting on the ortholinear ergo bandwagon to replace a microsoft sculpt. It's solidly built, happy to support and I'm using it to type this currently as a sunk cost fallacy... but similar concerns re: the inner thumb clusters being difficult to reach without repositioning palms. I've mapped them as: alt and space on the inner left and alt+space (power toys search) and layer…
you can remap individual LEDs - it's awkward but there's a community firmware that you can use without ever leaving the web editor. the layout language is also pretty raw but it's doable.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#35Reading reviews of this type of keyboard is really interesting to me because their use is such a subjective experience. I have found that the glove80 has far and away the most comfortable thumb cluster for my hands as well as the most comfortable positioning for my pinkies. I couldn’t make the corne variants work because tucking my thumbs hurt. The ergodox is too big. Even a keyboard like the ZSA Voyager just doesn’t…
Recommendations for making a keyboard heatmap?
Others can make more informed recommendations; to the best of my knowledge it's going to depend on your keyboard and what firmware it runs. (There are some os-level heatmappers you can use, too.) When I used a Voyager I used the Heatmap feature in ZSA's keymapp app. When I was using a corne I used Via/Vial to do it. I finally found my way to the glove and used the data from those.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#36Reading reviews of this type of keyboard is really interesting to me because their use is such a subjective experience. I have found that the glove80 has far and away the most comfortable thumb cluster for my hands as well as the most comfortable positioning for my pinkies. I couldn’t make the corne variants work because tucking my thumbs hurt. The ergodox is too big. Even a keyboard like the ZSA Voyager just doesn’t…
I have a Chocofi (36 key, 3x5 + 3 thumb per half). My complaint with the Cornes is that the keyboard doesn't have enough stagger for where they thumb cluster is positioned. Either the thumb cluster should move out like the ZSA voyager or more stagger is needed like Ferris sweep and most newer boards at a similar size including mine. I'm curious but not particularly enthusiastic about keywells because I find the bigge…
Yeah, I have found it most comfortable to use two keys on each thumb cluster. Space, Enter, Layer 1, Layer 2. I also like how ZSA's thumb cluster it moved out (Keyboardio really did it the best imho), but for some reason the keywell on the glove80 makes it much easier on my pinkies than the ortho layout on the voyager.
How did you find an ideal tent + tilt setup? Whenever I've tried I've wound up with sore wrists or hands, so just gave up. It seems like the glove80 w/out wrist rests does "good enough" so I stopped trying to optimize, even though the temptation remains.
I've seen some members of the erg keyboard community design and print their own pcbs based on their hand dimensions. I just don't have the time for it and fear how far down the rabbit hole I'd wind up if I did.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#37I wish manufacturers of ergonomic keyboards would pay more attention to pointing devices. After all, with modern UIs we have to use the pointer. Having a hand jump to a mouse all the time is, at least, distracting. Another factor is skeletal symmetry. Reaching for a mouse changes the natural balance of posture. I'm not a doctor, but it cannot be healthy over decades. That's why after many years I'm now using the poin…
I Velcro a touch pad on the middle of my kinesis advantage.
They made the Form keyboard but not sure the they haven't done the same for the ergo design.
It's a no brainer.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#38No discussion about ergonomics is complete without a mention of the Svalboard[0], a spiritual successor to the DataHand you can actually purchase today. I'm not affiliated in any way, just a happy user who's career has been saved by the Svalboard when no other ergonomic keyboard could. [0] https://svalboard.com
Old school datahand user here, are you using the trackball version of The Svalboard? How does it work as a mouse replacement?
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a Chocofi (36 key, 3x5 + 3 thumb per half). My complaint with the Cornes is that the keyboard doesn't have enough stagger for where they thumb cluster is positioned. Either the thumb cluster should move out like the ZSA voyager or more stagger is needed like Ferris sweep and most newer boards at a similar size including mine. I'm curious but not particularly enthusiastic about keywells because I find the bigge…
Yeah, I have found it most comfortable to use two keys on each thumb cluster. Space, Enter, Layer 1, Layer 2. I also like how ZSA's thumb cluster it moved out (Keyboardio really did it the best imho), but for some reason the keywell on the glove80 makes it much easier on my pinkies than the ortho layout on the voyager. How did you find an ideal tent + tilt setup? Whenever I've tried I've wound up with sore wrists or…
> How did you find an ideal tent + tilt setup?
I had the idea that the best position for long sessions would be the most relaxed one so I put my hands in my lap on top of a lapboard (old Wacom tablet) and tried to put they keyboard halves under my fingers. I cut up a shipping box for the tenting stand. It took me eight iterations with three fresh starts but doesn't take that long with cardboard and tape. Stick the keyboard onto the stand with double sided tape, fill the cardboard pyramid with change for weight, and it's been like that for eight months. I'll come up with a more permanent solution at some point but it's working well so I'm not in a hurry.
The positioning was mostly about getting the wrists straight with the keyboard halves in-plane. The in-plane part was, naturally, the tricky part and that was mostly about getting the pinky corners set and then small adjustments until the index corners felt good. I have it set so perfectly aligned requires me to slightly lift my arms off the armrests which prevents sore spots on the forearms. At rest with the sides of my palms on the lapboard my fingers are off to the side of the keys but I can still type.
> I've seen some members of the erg keyboard community design and print their own pcbs based on their hand dimensions
I follow the reddit community and see those as well. Someone started up a business selling fitted keywell boards (Cyboard) but the general consensus seems to be that the glove80 is good enough. I have some patches on my local ZMK (mostly changing chord detection) but no particular desire to do the hardware side. If I had a 3d printer I might consider it since apparently hand wiring isn't that hard if you have a print to hold the switches.
Re: Comparing the Glove80 and Maltron Keyboards
#40I wish manufacturers of ergonomic keyboards would pay more attention to pointing devices. After all, with modern UIs we have to use the pointer. Having a hand jump to a mouse all the time is, at least, distracting. Another factor is skeletal symmetry. Reaching for a mouse changes the natural balance of posture. I'm not a doctor, but it cannot be healthy over decades. That's why after many years I'm now using the poin…
Svalboard can have various kinds of pointing devices integrated into it, within reach of your fingers without having to change your hand position, but it's a pretty extreme keyboard design even by modern standards.