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Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

antirez.com

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Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#31

Post by belter »

dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

The issue is somebody will have to debug and fix what those LLM Leeches made up. I guess then companies will have to hire some 10x Prompters?

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#32

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

brokencode wrote: post #23
bgwalter wrote: post #16

Translation: His company will launch "AI" products in order to get funding or better compete with Valkey. I find it very sad that people who have been really productive without "AI" now go out of their way to find small anecdotal evidence for "AI".

I find it even more sad when people come out of the woodwork on every LLM post to tell us that our positive experiences using LLMs are imagined and we just haven’t realized how bad they are yet.

Could it not be that those positive experiences are just shining a light that the practices before using an LLM were inefficient? It’s more a reflection on the pontificator than anything.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#33

Post by nlh »

Can anyone recommend a workflow / tools that accomplishes a slightly more augmented version of antirez’ workflow & suggestions minus the copy-pasting?

I am on board to agree that pure LLM + pure original full code as context is the best path at the moment, but I’d love to be able to use some shortcuts like quickly applying changes, checkpoints, etc.

My persistent (and not unfounded?) worry is that all the major tools & plugins (Cursor, Cline/Roo) all play games with their own sub-prompts and context “efficiency”.

What’s the purest solution?

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#34

Post by muglug »

dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

> Programming used to be (and still is, to a large extent) an activity that can be done with open and free tools.

Yet JetBrains has been a business longer than some of my colleagues have been alive, and Microsoft’s Visual Basic/C++/Studio made writing software for Windows much easier, and did not come cheap.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#35

Post by antirez »

bgwalter wrote: post #16

Translation: His company will launch "AI" products in order to get funding or better compete with Valkey. I find it very sad that people who have been really productive without "AI" now go out of their way to find small anecdotal evidence for "AI".

Did you read my post? I hope you didn’t.

This post has nothing to do with Redis and is even a follow up to a post I wrote before rejoining the company.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#36

Post by neuronexmachina »

on_the_train wrote: post #26
brokencode wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it even more sad when people come out of the woodwork on every LLM post to tell us that our positive experiences using LLMs are imagined and we just haven’t realized how bad they are yet.

If LLMs were actually useful, there would be no need to scream it everywhere. On the contrary: it would be a guarded secret.

In my experience, devs generally aren't secretive about tools they find useful.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#37

Post by dakiol »

azan_ wrote: post #29
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

Paid models are just much, much better.

Of course they are. I wouldn't expect otherwise :)

But the price we're paying (and I don't mean money) is very high, imho. We all talk about how good engineers write code that depends on high-level abstractions instead of low-level details, allowing us to replace third party dependencies easily and test our apps more effectively, keeping the core of our domain "pure". Well, isn't it time we started doing the same with LLMs? I'm not talking about MCP, but rather an open source tool that can plug into either free and open source LLMs or private ones. That would at least allow us to switch to a free and opensource version if the companies behind the private LLMs go rogue. I'm afraid tho that wouldn't be enough, but it's a starting point.

To put an example: what would you think if you need to pay for every single Linux process in your machine? Or for every Git commit you make? Or for every debugging session you perform?

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#38

Post by hobs »

on_the_train wrote: post #26
brokencode wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it even more sad when people come out of the woodwork on every LLM post to tell us that our positive experiences using LLMs are imagined and we just haven’t realized how bad they are yet.

If LLMs were actually useful, there would be no need to scream it everywhere. On the contrary: it would be a guarded secret.

I think many devs are guarding their secrets, but the last few decades have shown us that an open foundation can net huge benefits for everyone (and then you can put your secret sauce in the last mile.)

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#39

Post by dakiol »

muglug wrote: post #34
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

> Programming used to be (and still is, to a large extent) an activity that can be done with open and free tools. Yet JetBrains has been a business longer than some of my colleagues have been alive, and Microsoft’s Visual Basic/C++/Studio made writing software for Windows much easier, and did not come cheap.

I see a big difference: I do use Jetbrains IDEs (they are nice), but I can switch to vim (or vscode) any time if I need to (e.g., let's say Jetbrains increase their price to a point that doesn't make sense, or perhaps they introduce a pervasive feature that cannot be disabled). The problem with paid LLMs is that one cannot easily switch to open-source ones (because they are not as good as the paid ones). So, it's a dependency that cannot be avoided, and that's imho something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#40

Post by azan_ »

dakiol wrote: post #37
azan_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid models are just much, much better.

Of course they are. I wouldn't expect otherwise :) But the price we're paying (and I don't mean money) is very high, imho. We all talk about how good engineers write code that depends on high-level abstractions instead of low-level details, allowing us to replace third party dependencies easily and test our apps more effectively, keeping the core of our domain "pure". Well, isn't it time we started doing the same wit…

> I'm not talking about MCP, but rather an open source tool that can plug into either free and open source LLMs or private ones. That would at least allow us to switch to a free and opensource version if the companies behind the private LLMs go rogue. I'm afraid tho that wouldn't be enough, but it's a starting point.

There are open source tools that do exactly that already.

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