The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality • Hacker News Board

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#31

Post by ck45 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:01 AM UTC

jabjq wrote: post #7

anarticle wrote: post #5

This article is really trying to gaslight us into believing it is only pessimism, when decline in quality is very real. The best example is that ikea no longer sells solid wood tables, they are particle board with wood grain stickers. The exciting part is they are more expensive than the original hardwood versions.

I have a solid wood table that I bought at Ikea a few years ago. I think it’s made of bamboo. Isn’t that hardwood? Even if it’s compressed I don’t think it’s made of grain. It definitely doesn’t have stickers.

Bamboo is not solid wood, it's bamboo stems glued together.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#32

Post by ozgrakkurt » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:02 AM UTC

bitter_michael wrote: post #27

This article's thesis is all over the place, but the discussion here brings up an interesting topic: the decline in quality is relative to your evaluation function. If you want long lasting products, then maybe the cheaper furniture is of lower quality. If you want something light weight and affordable, then ikea is higher quality. Assuming there is a uniform product evaluation function seems like lazy journalism. Th…

But we are not in control of the evaluation function.

It is heavily manipulated by ads and other patterns.

You can control your own evaluation if you are actively working on it but market moves based on majority so it doesn’t matter

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#33

Post by petesergeant » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:03 AM UTC

7bit wrote: post #26

navane wrote: post #6

It's called inflation guys. Most innovation is selling an inferior product for a lower price. Most of us can only afford that. It's the same old inflation, but repackeged to keep the official inflation number down.

[flagged]

> mansplanation

Whatever this bullshit is it doesn’t feel like it has a place here.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#34

Post by ArtTimeInvestor » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:03 AM UTC

And somehow we still see great reviews about everything.

I looked at this hotel made from containers recently:

https://www.booking.com/hotel/de/tin-inn-montabaur.html

I thought it is an interesting concept. And it has a rating of 8.5 out of 10 on booking.com, which means "Very good".

But then I read through the details and the reviews (sorted by new) and see:

You can hear your neighbors.

You cannot open the windows.

Staff enters the room before your checkout time.

The rooms and the stuff inside the rooms are dirty.

Lots of broken amenities, including the air condition.

For check-in you have to enter your passport-id (where does it end up?).

And on and on an on ...

How is that "Very good"?

What threshold should one assign to book something on booking.com these days? 9.9/10?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#35

Post by KoolKat23 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:03 AM UTC

Barriers to entry keep going up, access to capital is going down and required return on capital is high.

People are going to maximize short term profits.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#36

Post by HPsquared » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:04 AM UTC

jakubmazanec wrote: post #18

anarticle wrote: post #5

This article is really trying to gaslight us into believing it is only pessimism, when decline in quality is very real. The best example is that ikea no longer sells solid wood tables, they are particle board with wood grain stickers. The exciting part is they are more expensive than the original hardwood versions.

My experience is different (and I doubt that Ikea ever sold anything that wasn't made of particle boards). For example in Czechia, I bought the same bed in Ikea in 2010 and in 2021, and the price was nominally the same, so because of inflation, it is actually cheaper. But the quality went down and it's really bad.

A lot of that quality decline of the same product is called "value engineering". Companies are always looking for tiny ways to save money.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#37

Post by JadeNB » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:05 AM UTC

zer00eyz wrote: post #19

> According to a 2024 report by the software company Salesforce, 62% of these services in Spain are already automated. Today, it’s easier to converse with a machine than with a real person. Whats adorable is that the author thinks this has anything to do with AI. Shitty AI is an excuse to get rid of customer service. It's a move that most of tech made a long time ago. How many times BEFORE AI have you heard the lamen…

> Whole Foods, and other more 'local' choices.

Whole Foods used to be the place to go for quality throughout the store. It seems to me that now you can still get plenty of quality, but it's not guaranteed if you just go and grab something off the shelf. Instead, you have to know what's worth buying and what's not.

(I can't back this up with examples, because exactly this phenomenon means that I don't shop at Whole Foods as much. I could be wrong.)

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#38

Post by ath3nd » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:05 AM UTC

navane wrote: post #6

It's called inflation guys. Most innovation is selling an inferior product for a lower price. Most of us can only afford that. It's the same old inflation, but repackeged to keep the official inflation number down.

This is not inflation, it's divorced from all factors, these companies are raking in record profits, and they still squeeze out price increases, smaller seats, worse customer service, just because you have no alternative, you gotta take it.

It's called "Enshittification": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification. It's just the free market and the corporations giving a big middle finger to its clients. It's the same reason Microsoft can do all of the above:

- "The company reported better-than-expected results, with $25.8 billion in quarterly net income, and an upbeat forecast in late April"

- "Microsoft on Tuesday said that it’s laying off 3% of employees across all levels, teams and geographies, affecting about 6,000 people."

- "These new job cuts are not related to performance, the spokesperson said."

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/13/microsoft-is-cutting-3percen...

If you are thinking this is in any way tied to inflation, it's not. It's just greed and the absence of laws to curb that greed. So you are gonna get less and worse for more money, and like it, because the monopolies are lobbying the governments and can do literally what they want to do in countries susceptible to it.

When Broadcom tried these kinds of stunts in civilized countries, they quickly got shown their place:

- https://www.networkworld.com/article/4015489/dutch-court-for...

- https://licenseware.io/broadcom-faces-eu-scrutiny-over-contr...

Does 800% and 1500% price increase sound to you like related to inflation? Enshittification is not out of our hands if we elect governments that have our interest in mind.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#39

Post by jstummbillig » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:07 AM UTC

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that.

But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Products that were once expensive and exclusive are now available, at good-enough quality, to billions more people around the world.

Yes, that trade-off can mean shorter lifespans or less repairability. But on balance, widening access is a moral win, and one made possible by the very progress the article seems to mourn.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#40

Post by bradley13 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 10:08 AM UTC

littlestymaar wrote: post #28

phtrivier wrote: post #2

Begs an interesting question : some people can still afford quality items that last (namely, the people that sell throwaway shit to everyone else ; or, more precisely, the people who earn rents from companies that sell throwaway shit etc...) Are things getting shittier for them, too ? Are luxury brands immune to "energy is getting expensive, and corporate needs to buy shares back and increase dividend, so we have to…

I'm not sure the billionaire ever cared about the durability of things. Pretty sure most of them have people managing their things, who will throw anything to the bin at the first sign of degradation. Here's an anecdote: As a student, I visited one Hermes (French luxury brand) manufacture in Paris. They showed us how crocodile skin was worked with to make hand bags and showed us the finished products. They had two fi…

Somewhat related: I have an acquaintance who maintains the IT infrastructure for a rich guy's house. Lots of smart TVs. Lots of cameras, with local data storage. Lots of IoT.

At a guess, it's a 20% to 25% gig. Something is always breaking or misbehaving. The rich guy probably notices almost none of the problems. If he had to maintain it himself, he would insist on simplifying things.