Please Stop Working on Ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#31

Post by mattmaroon » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:32 PM UTC

I think there's a false dichotomy here between solving a problem and building an ad-supported service. Facebook definitely solves a number of problems. How to keep in touch with people, communicate, share photos, etc. That's why people use it. Admittedly it doesn't do anything that couldn't be done (or wasn't done) another way before it existed, but it reduces the friction and wraps them up into a great package.

If free social networks were banned, a lot of people would still pay $5 or $10/mo to use Facebook. But since a law like that seems unlikely in most countries, people will always gravitate to a free solution or some other method of monetization more creative than direct payment has to win.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#32

Post by adgar » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:33 PM UTC

thesash wrote: post #29

The consumer packaged goods industry generates two TRILLION dollars a year in the US, by selling us things we don't think we need, through branding and marketing. Bottled water is an entire industry that was built on selling us plastic bottles filled with an abundantly free resource by convincing us we needed it through, you guessed it: advertising. There are many, many industries that rely on brand awareness to sell…

> Bottled water is an entire industry that was built on selling us plastic bottles filled with an abundantly free resource by convincing us we needed it through, you guessed it: advertising.

I drank the bottle of water on my nightstand when I woke up this morning in my hotel. I was a bit hungover and feeling lazy. Advertising had nothing to do with it. I wanted the bottle of water to make my morning a little easier.

Yes, people buy things they want but don't need! It's almost like there's more to life than the raw inputs the human body requires.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#33

Post by thenomad » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:34 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #12

This wasn't quite the diatribe I was expecting. I basically agree that what Amazon (and Google for that matter; disclaimer: I work for Google on display ads) is intent and intent is huge. Much as Facebook would like to become the de facto Internet, I don't see it ever capturing that intent (let alone Twitter). That being said, I think people discount what an inordinate amount of good advertising has done and just foc…

Third point - some advertising actually advertises things that you like and will enhance your life.

I know that's not a particularly popular opinion, but looking around me, I can see several things I first heard about via advertising, later purchased, and still enjoy.

Bad advertising's bad - not all advertising.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#34

Post by thejteam » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #12

This wasn't quite the diatribe I was expecting. I basically agree that what Amazon (and Google for that matter; disclaimer: I work for Google on display ads) is intent and intent is huge. Much as Facebook would like to become the de facto Internet, I don't see it ever capturing that intent (let alone Twitter). That being said, I think people discount what an inordinate amount of good advertising has done and just foc…

To expand on the concept of intent from the point of view of the user... I don't mind ads... when I am looking for ads. Otherwise they are at best a nuisance and at worst polluting. Here is a useful heuristic for a search engine that wants to improve on Google: If(contains adsense), then (probably a junk article, exclude).

What ad platforms like Facebook, Google, and most others is missing is some form of curating. A hobby of mine is woodworking. In the past I have been involved in amateur radio and know several people who still are. We homeschool our children. I bring this up because when I encounter a magazine on one of these topics I buy it, largely for the advertisements. I want to know what products are available. Repeated another way, not only am I looking at the ads, but I am PAYING for the privilege of looking at the ads. Why? The ads are always on target, directly related to the topic of the magazine. The number of scam ads are close to 0. I don't click on an ad to be taken to a "landing page" asking me for an email address to sign up for a service that doesn't exist yet.

Want to fix ads online? Develop an environment where the ads are that good that I want to see them and will not be wasting my time.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#35

Post by ianstormtaylor » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

hapless wrote: post #16

cletus wrote: post #12

This wasn't quite the diatribe I was expecting. I basically agree that what Amazon (and Google for that matter; disclaimer: I work for Google on display ads) is intent and intent is huge. Much as Facebook would like to become the de facto Internet, I don't see it ever capturing that intent (let alone Twitter). That being said, I think people discount what an inordinate amount of good advertising has done and just foc…

1. First item first: Gmail is free because the rich consumers using it are worth a few dollars a month in ads. Those free users in Africa who don't have the money can only exist due to cross-subsidy. The ad model helps them only by accident. Until they have money to spend, they can only detract from the value of Google's ad inventory. 2. To address the second question, the cost of traditional media: Adwords made new…

I'm confused. Is #1 supposed to be a rebuttal? Or was your point to reiterate why ads are beneficial to "free users in Africa".

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#36

Post by aretiste » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:36 PM UTC

Advertising is now an art form. But not the ads you see on the web. Leave ads to the print, radio and TV folks.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#37

Post by diego » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:36 PM UTC

thesash wrote: post #29

The consumer packaged goods industry generates two TRILLION dollars a year in the US, by selling us things we don't think we need, through branding and marketing. Bottled water is an entire industry that was built on selling us plastic bottles filled with an abundantly free resource by convincing us we needed it through, you guessed it: advertising. There are many, many industries that rely on brand awareness to sell…

I saw that quote on Spent by Geoffrey Miller. It's about conspicuous consumption. That is something that I stand against, as does he. He provides some sensible alternatives (and some that don't make any sense). I still recommend the book.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#38

Post by lazyjones » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:37 PM UTC

I would like to agree, but have to point out that ads are the honest counterpart of the widespread guerilla marketing: fake reviews and forum posts, paid editorials and tv shows. As annoying (and technically backwards, i.e. still using document.write() and cache-busting headers etc.) it may be, the thriving online advertising industry prevents dishonest practices to a large extent - and it enables users to block ads!

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#39

Post by badclient » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:39 PM UTC

It’s 2 pm. Alice goes to Facebook. Bob goes to Amazon. Charlie goes to Twitter.

If you have to bet on which site I'd most likely actually be on on a random afternoon at 2pm, it wouldn't be Amazon; it would almost certainly be facebook.

Re: Please Stop Working on Ads

#40

Post by salman89 » Fri, Aug 31, 2012, 7:40 PM UTC

So OP thinks that google should stop working on ads and should start charging for all its free services?

There's nothing wrong with ads - just make them good and make sure it aligns with the product (Adsense).