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Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

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Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#31

Post by ryandrake »

jjcob wrote: post #9
throwawayoldie wrote: post #5

[flagged]

I don't get why people can't just keep their stupid opinions to themselves. That guy achieved some pretty amazing stuff, and I loved watching him, but then he starts publicly talking political bullshit to the media and it gets a bit hard to ignore that he is an asshole. A lot of accomplished people are probably assholes in private, but they don't talk about it in public. I wish Baumgartner would have just stuck to ta…

It sucks when you find out an artist you like or someone who accomplished something you find impressive, is actually a terrible person. I suppose it's useful to be able to separate the artist from the art, appreciating the thing while acknowledging the person is flawed. This happens all the time with historical figures, authors, musicians, and so on. They build up this library of great work and achievement, but they somehow can't keep their opinions to themselves and end up outing themselves as bigots or worse. We can admire their works while condemning their beliefs.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#32

Post by shadowgovt »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #25

From Wikipedia: "On 13 July 2016, Facebook deleted his fan page of 1.5 million fans. Baumgartner subsequently claimed that he must have become "too uncomfortable" for "political elites".[48]" Because of his pro-right viewpoints. For one thing, it's slightly amusing considering Zuckerberg's own politically convenient pirouettes on politics and management. Secondly, it reminds me why the argument was very much on the m…

Do we have a timeline of the deletion? I don't think I'm a priori convinced that he was deleted "as soon as [he deviated] from a specific progressive discourse." If anything, prior to Jan 6, 2021 (when Zuckerberg became aware that there was such a thing as aiding and abetting treason if enough political figures decided Facebook had been complicit in organizing an attempted coup), the site was permissive in the extreme; their goal was to maximize userbase to maximize revenue, and they were very loathe to ban anyone.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#33

Post by happytoexplain »

shadowgovt wrote: post #29
southernplaces7 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In summary: "Why does this guy have to have his own mind, filled with opinions and beliefs that I happen to not like, and then actually talk about them publicly?" Grow up. One isn't an automatic asshole just because they don't share your worldview.

No, but they might be if they advocate for a "moderate dictatorship" to replace a democracy.

I disagree - it's not really a horrific opinion to feel that both democracies and dictatorships are absolute catastrophes at the moment. Clearly there's a correct choice among only those two options, but something in between might be even better. Of course I have no idea how you would make a dictatorship "moderate", but I'd love for it to be a real thing, and it doesn't feel reasonable to imply a person is a monster for agreeing with me on that particular thing.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#34

Post by southernplaces7 »

shigawire wrote: post #23
southernplaces7 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In summary: "Why does this guy have to have his own mind, filled with opinions and beliefs that I happen to not like, and then actually talk about them publicly?" Grow up. One isn't an automatic asshole just because they don't share your worldview.

It's just about going outside your expertise. There's some things I know a bit about... But if I was spouting off about skydiving when I know little about it, that makes me an asshole. Especially, to extend the metaphor, if I was spreading misinformation that led to people being hurt. Anyways, like I always say, parachutes are optional really.

Having a general opinion about things outside your very specific area of expertise in the world does not make you an asshole. It makes you a human being, and just as the comment above is also spouting an opinion outside the poster's area of expertise (unless he's an immigration policy and political analysis expert), the same right applies to a skydiver. I have a profession, but I also have opinions on many subjects I've read about in some depth. I should keep my mouth shut about them due to a lack of professional certifications because some people find it convenient to harp on that out of their own ideological fixations? Absurd nonsense.

Also, an opinion that doesn't tick all the check boxes of pro-immigration and open borders isn't automatically "hurtful misinformation" You should really qualify that particular line of censorious bullshit. More recently, the biggest fans of narratives about hurtful misinformation that I've seen tend to be authoritarians on the right, curiously enough.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#35

Post by happytoexplain »

mschuster91 wrote: post #16
happytoexplain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the qualitative nature of the German/Austrian right wing right now (e.g. you can be an anti-immigration right winger without being Trumpian), but none of that sounds worthy of a dismissive attitude at face value. Obviously I would not be surprised if he was a typical asshole about things like this. I just don't like the usage of those political opinions in particular as "this is a bad person" ev…

That's because the stuff is wrapped in layers. Read the original quotes (I've translated in [1]), or run the German Wikipedia article through a translation engine [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44597171 [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Baumgartner#Umstrittene_...

Yeah, he's definitely an asshole. But mostly in tone - most of the concrete stuff in this summary section consists of theoretically defensible conservative positions. To be clear: I'm not defending him holistically. I don't know him. I just don't like the idea of anti-immigration opinion as a whole, and the idea that democracy is failing rapidly, being elevated into the echelon of indefensible positions.

Of course "dictatorship", moderate or otherwise, is a scary word to hear from a German/Austrian. But simply the idea that there could be something in-between democracy and dictatorship? That doesn't sound insane. Just daunting. Also, he doesn't even seem married to the idea. The summary mentions his admiration of direct democracy.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#36

Post by layer8 »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #21
jjcob wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people can't just keep their stupid opinions to themselves. That guy achieved some pretty amazing stuff, and I loved watching him, but then he starts publicly talking political bullshit to the media and it gets a bit hard to ignore that he is an asshole. A lot of accomplished people are probably assholes in private, but they don't talk about it in public. I wish Baumgartner would have just stuck to ta…

In summary: "Why does this guy have to have his own mind, filled with opinions and beliefs that I happen to not like, and then actually talk about them publicly?" Grow up. One isn't an automatic asshole just because they don't share your worldview.

The more prominent you are in the public sphere, the more responsibility you have for the opinions you espouse publicly.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#37

Post by jjcob »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #34
shigawire wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just about going outside your expertise. There's some things I know a bit about... But if I was spouting off about skydiving when I know little about it, that makes me an asshole. Especially, to extend the metaphor, if I was spreading misinformation that led to people being hurt. Anyways, like I always say, parachutes are optional really.

Having a general opinion about things outside your very specific area of expertise in the world does not make you an asshole. It makes you a human being, and just as the comment above is also spouting an opinion outside the poster's area of expertise (unless he's an immigration policy and political analysis expert), the same right applies to a skydiver. I have a profession, but I also have opinions on many subjects I…

You shape your public image by deciding what you talk about.

Do you want to be known as a legendary skydiver? Then talk about the amazing achievements and plans for the future you made.

Do you want to be known as a former athlete with questionable political views? Then go talk to the media doubling down on stupid memes you posted on facebook.

I have no interest in learning more about the latter. I guess that's why most of us eventually forgot about him until he tragically passed away today.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#38

Post by aaroninsf »

shadowgovt wrote: post #26
RamblingCTO wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all we know is that we became unconscious, right?

As generally people don't just nod off flying a paraglider, a medical event is extremely likely even if it has not been officially determined.

They might however "nod off" in consequence of losing control during risk-taking activities and being subjected to high Gs.

Whether "medical event" was prior to or resulted from risk-taking adventure,

and hence culpability, will await forensics I imagine. If those are possible.

That determination aside however,

risk-taking that puts others at risk (e.g., flying over other people) is morally and in many jurisdictions legally prohibited for obvious reasons.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#39

Post by Scoundreller »

kleton wrote: post #28
jjcob wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people can't just keep their stupid opinions to themselves. That guy achieved some pretty amazing stuff, and I loved watching him, but then he starts publicly talking political bullshit to the media and it gets a bit hard to ignore that he is an asshole. A lot of accomplished people are probably assholes in private, but they don't talk about it in public. I wish Baumgartner would have just stuck to ta…

Celebrities voice their political opinions in public for the same reasons you are right now. They have a strongly-held belief and want to improve their city, nation, or world. And given that they are well-known, feel a duty to use this platform to advance their beliefs.

Or carefully calculated messages (possibly written by a 3rd party) that they know their fan-base will eat up.

You don’t need everyone to appreciate you, just enough people to love you and throw their money/interest back at you.

Re: Extreme skydiver Baumgartner dies in paragliding accident

#40

Post by slaw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #11
throwawayoldie wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> In recent years, he made headlines of a different sort with controversial political statements, criticizing German and Austrian migration policies and opining that a "moderate dictatorship" would be preferable to a democracy, in which "you can't move anything." That's putting it mildly. The full quote [1] is: > Wie weit sind wir bereit unsere Identität und unsere Kultur aufzugeben und sie zu vermischen mit einer vö…

[flagged]
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