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Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

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Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#31

Post by notaustinpowers »

63 wrote: post #23
ronsor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the youth's parents should be reeling them in, not the government or third parties at the expense of everyone else's freedom.

Ideally, sure. In practice, that hasn't worked well. I was a youth fairly recently and I can assure you my mother lacked the knowledge to meaningfully enforce any content restrictions on my devices short of physically going through my phone. Incognito windows and deleting texts isn't exactly out of reach for children.

Why does that make that everyone else’s problem?

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#32

Post by notaustinpowers »

63 wrote: post #26
heavyset_go wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death of anonymity on the internet is not worth making parents feel better about not parenting their kids.

So your alternative is teaching millions of 40+ year olds how the internet works so they can implement dns blocks on their home routers? Service side age restriction seems much more effective than mandatory parenting classes.

Or just use your iPhone and set up your kids iPhone as a kids iPhone and set restrictions on what apps to download. It’s really not that hard.

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#33

Post by aboringusername »

xg15 wrote: post #25
aboringusername wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim is that the data is "deleted", but there is no way to actually verify it is in fact being deleted (and the chances are data itself might be stored in say AWS which may have its own way of "deleting" data, such as in backups, caches, multiple regions etc (however they have their own legal process which may not allow data to be deleted in the event of a law enforcement request, and there's no way for anyone u…

> So the reality is, assume everything on the internet is being archived, including any scans you do, and adjust the threat model accordingly. OK, but what would the practical conclusion of this be? A lot of services will require those scans to be made. So, just get used to the fact that your face scans will be stored beyond your control?

We are in a community of hackers. There are tools such as VPNs which are effective at bypassing these requirements. That will likely change in a few years as the government will want to crack down on circumvention techniqus. The law is incidious enough to actually suggested that educating people on how to bypass the checks is not allowed - I sincerely hope no court ever upholds that otherwise the very act of education is at threat.

So the end result is using tools such as VPNs or fake videos to bypass the system. Or creating new communities which do not have such restrictions (but they won't be able to be big platforms anymore as they will fall into scope).

So you could have 1000's of smaller bulletin boards. Once they get large enough they'd need to shut down and restart in order to not be within scope.

Alternatively there could be some legal challenges on the way to define the scope of their powers (so far there's not been any enforcement conclusions to challenge, although there are some investigations by OFCOM ongoing)

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#34

Post by xg15 »

nemomarx wrote: post #30
xg15 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the reality is, assume everything on the internet is being archived, including any scans you do, and adjust the threat model accordingly. OK, but what would the practical conclusion of this be? A lot of services will require those scans to be made. So, just get used to the fact that your face scans will be stored beyond your control?

Or stop using any large online services, I guess. I believe you can just VPN around this for now because it's not very rigorous too?

Have fun doing that if half of your contacts are on there. People didn't quit Facebook after learning what kind of stuff they are doing with their data, I don't see why they would quit now.

Also, I don't know the law in detail, but wouldn't it apply for all online services, no matter how large or small?

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#36

Post by xg15 »

aboringusername wrote: post #33
xg15 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the reality is, assume everything on the internet is being archived, including any scans you do, and adjust the threat model accordingly. OK, but what would the practical conclusion of this be? A lot of services will require those scans to be made. So, just get used to the fact that your face scans will be stored beyond your control?

We are in a community of hackers. There are tools such as VPNs which are effective at bypassing these requirements. That will likely change in a few years as the government will want to crack down on circumvention techniqus. The law is incidious enough to actually suggested that educating people on how to bypass the checks is not allowed - I sincerely hope no court ever upholds that otherwise the very act of educatio…

Are you suggesting that the entire population of the UK switch to using VPNs?

> So you could have 1000's of smaller bulletin boards. Once they get large enough they'd need to shut down and restart in order to not be within scope.

This will work until the moment some actual pedos run some of those small message bords and use it to groom kids and politicians will have the necessary munition to shut down those sorts of exceptions to the law.

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#37

Post by gjsman-1000 »

cladopa wrote: post #35

My question is: who protects Children against the UK Government? Governments are very dangerous institutions. They hold a lot of power and can abuse it.

Well, in the US, we invented this cool thing called an amendment which gave everyone in theory the ability to hold a government accountable the hard way, and we invented it after a long history of knowing what the UK was like...

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. /s

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#38

Post by michaelt »

IshKebab wrote: post #9

Here's what you want to know: https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/kids-web-services/pv-service/... > Parents in all regions except the USA and the Republic of Korea can verify their age using face scan. KWS prompts the parent to hold their device in front of their face. A machine-learning algorithm estimates the parent’s age using the device’s camera. > Face scan verification is provided by Yoti (yoti.com). They have an a…

> I would put a lot of money on it not being able to detect you pointing your phone at a Veo3 video of an old person though.

I recently had to verify my identity for UK government company registration purposes.

I had to use my phone to scan my biometric passport, then it did facial recognition while flashing the screen between red, green and blue. Presumably doing... something... hoping to detect fake faces.

(as well as the biometric passport and modern phone, it also needed an e-mail address, password, TOTP code, verifying the e-mail address, full name and address, and year I moved into the address, and I had to log in about 5 times...)

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#39

Post by SllX »

cladopa wrote: post #35

My question is: who protects Children against the UK Government? Governments are very dangerous institutions. They hold a lot of power and can abuse it.

UK Voters or no one, depending on which half of the glass you focus on.

Sovereign power is scary af, but in theory also kept in check by voters. The problem is that no matter what form of government you have, it is still downstream from culture, and if this kind of policy is what UK voters want or can be talked into wanting, then this is what the King’s subjects shall get.

Re: Working with the UK Government to Protect Children Online

#40

Post by heavyset_go »

cladopa wrote: post #35

My question is: who protects Children against the UK Government? Governments are very dangerous institutions. They hold a lot of power and can abuse it.

Case in point: what's happening to trans kids in the UK at the moment.

If you don't think this technology will be used to keep kids from connecting with peers like themselves, or learning or reading about themselves, because of some trans panic, you haven't been paying attention.

Politicians all over the world have put forth legislation like this with the explicit purpose of preventing LGBT kids from connecting with peers or learning anything related to their identities[1]:

> A co-sponsor of a bipartisan bill intended to protect children from the dangers of social media and other online content appeared to suggest in March that the measure could be used to steer kids away from seeing transgender content online.

> In a video recently published by the conservative group Family Policy Alliance, Sen. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., said “protecting minor children from the transgender in this culture” should be among the top priorities of conservative lawmakers.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sena...

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