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Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

joincolossus.com

31–40 of 89 posts

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#31
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you're here, can I ask if you're still writing/publishing anywhere? Long-time fan. (Alternative comment: I think oblomovka's down).

i am! oblomovka runs off a machine on my desk, which tends to crash whenever I walk out of my house, like today. However, this is an excellent notification that I'm now writing enough to maybe make it a bit more resilient. (For real dannyobrien completists, I also write small more regular email newsletter at https://buttondown.com/dannyob of my work within the Filecoin Extended Cinematic Universe (which includes IPFS…

Many thanks for the links, I'll dig into them.

> oblomovka runs off a machine on my desk, which tends to crash whenever I walk out of my house

Your essay on moving to the edge when everyone else is moving to the centre had a big effect on me at the time. I think it was prescient.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#33
post #25

As a young person in the United States, the main concern is that if you aren't one of the greatest at what you do, you'll be doomed to a life of increasing poverty: food derived from vegetable oils and chemically bleached wheat, apartments of grey laminate flooring and concrete, crime, people who derive their actions from social media, a 60 minute commute---as the real world: nature, people who are present, quality f…

"the greatest at what you do" is by definition a zero sum framing that will lead 99.999% of participants to view their lives as a failure. It is literally madness to make this your goal. The alternative is to choose to be very good at what you do, which has a good chance of success if you try hard at something you care about.

I feel like very good isn't enough as employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, and if you're sort of in the middle then the so-so companies don't want you either because they think you'll leave.

Something about the increased social stratification of our times, which also has to do with increased transportation and communication.

Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be better than SWE in Texas.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#34

As a young person in the United States, the main concern is that if you aren't one of the greatest at what you do, you'll be doomed to a life of increasing poverty: food derived from vegetable oils and chemically bleached wheat, apartments of grey laminate flooring and concrete, crime, people who derive their actions from social media, a 60 minute commute---as the real world: nature, people who are present, quality f…

Woah that’s bleak. You don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other people the bear is chasing. The bar is so low in corporate America you could trip on it. Just try to be halfway competent, do something useful at work, read a book or two about your industry. You’re already way ahead. Don’t fall for the hacker news bs. Lots of millionaires out here that never had a successful startup.

I've tried to be as accurate as I perceive it, and the descriptions of the environment are accurate to the locale of most of the United States.

If the bar is that low, then the environment is sure to be like the first place I described.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#35
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the greatest at what you do" is by definition a zero sum framing that will lead 99.999% of participants to view their lives as a failure. It is literally madness to make this your goal. The alternative is to choose to be very good at what you do, which has a good chance of success if you try hard at something you care about.

I feel like very good isn't enough as employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, and if you're sort of in the middle then the so-so companies don't want you either because they think you'll leave. Something about the increased social stratification of our times, which also has to do with increased transportation and communication. Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be b…

Hiring is not a zero sum game (growth of the company/economy through good hiring means more positions are created). I've hired software developers before and what I was looking for was somebody who commits code that works and is good quality. I don't care about their ranking on some imaginary programmer hierarchy. You probably don't want to work at a company where they do.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#36
I too would like to hear more from people with similar approaches to work, career and technology to KK. However, it seems like there’s a large amount of survivorship bias at play when people talk about just following their interests and it leading to financial security and work freedom.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#37
post #18
post #16

He's quite religious: https://www.christianitytoday.com/2011/07/geektheologian/

Many successful American tech founders and entrepreneurs have strong religious or spiritual beliefs — I believe it's part of the unique competitive advantage and edge in this industry

Many successful American tech founders and entrepreneurs don't have strong religious or spiritual beliefs. Both are true.

I think finding self-motivation in life is important, particularly for entrepreneurs, but there are many sources.

I've never thought the SV / San Fran scene was particularly religious. I'd have guessed religion was under-represented there compared to the rest of the US.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#38
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am! oblomovka runs off a machine on my desk, which tends to crash whenever I walk out of my house, like today. However, this is an excellent notification that I'm now writing enough to maybe make it a bit more resilient. (For real dannyobrien completists, I also write small more regular email newsletter at https://buttondown.com/dannyob of my work within the Filecoin Extended Cinematic Universe (which includes IPFS…

Many thanks for the links, I'll dig into them. > oblomovka runs off a machine on my desk, which tends to crash whenever I walk out of my house Your essay on moving to the edge when everyone else is moving to the centre had a big effect on me at the time. I think it was prescient.

though those crashes show the limitations!

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like very good isn't enough as employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, and if you're sort of in the middle then the so-so companies don't want you either because they think you'll leave. Something about the increased social stratification of our times, which also has to do with increased transportation and communication. Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be b…

Hiring is not a zero sum game (growth of the company/economy through good hiring means more positions are created). I've hired software developers before and what I was looking for was somebody who commits code that works and is good quality. I don't care about their ranking on some imaginary programmer hierarchy. You probably don't want to work at a company where they do.

No, not a fan of Leetcode either, nor imaginary measures of social prestige.

We may not necessarily disagree with any of each other's points, but lack of mutual context and having different lived experience makes our words have different meaning.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#40

As a young person in the United States, the main concern is that if you aren't one of the greatest at what you do, you'll be doomed to a life of increasing poverty: food derived from vegetable oils and chemically bleached wheat, apartments of grey laminate flooring and concrete, crime, people who derive their actions from social media, a 60 minute commute---as the real world: nature, people who are present, quality f…

> As a young person in the United States, the main concern is that if you aren't one of the greatest at what you do, you'll be doomed to a life of increasing poverty

In psychology there’s a concept called splitting, or dichotomous thinking, where a person only thinks of things in concepts of their extremes. Either the most extreme good outcome, or the most extreme bad outcome. They might see people or public figures as either amazing or evil. The Wikipedia page has a primer on it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology) But you don’t need a Wikipedia article or psychology concepts to realize that there are more outcomes than extreme success or increasing poverty.

I’m fascinated by how these concepts that were once relegated to psychology and therapy have started to become commonplace among young people on the internet. They’re not seen as failure modes in thinking, but rather an obvious conclusion from whatever they’ve been consuming so much of online.

The comment above is a prime example. Even the obsession over “food derived from vegetable oils and chemically bleached wheat” is a confusing conclusion for me, someone who has had no problem avoiding wheat products and eating healthy on a budget with even minimal effort. The food topic is particularly strange because it’s not that hard to learn basic cooking skills, buy cheap vegetable, and cook quick and easy meals. Yet I continue talking to young people who simultaneously fret about food quality while filling their diets with nothing but processed and fast foods, many of which are more expensive than cooking basic fast meals.

I don’t know what else to say, other than the above style of thinking is, in my experience, indicative of what happens when someone collects too much perspective from the internet and not enough from the real world. Given the context of this comment section, I can only recommend trying to reevaluate, disconnect from the internet a little more, and make an effort to reconnect with the real world

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