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Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

austen.info

31–40 of 71 posts

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP's comment also seems to be firmly stuck in 2023 when you'd prompt ChatGPT or whatever. The fact that LLMs today, when strapped into an agentic harness, can do or help with all of these things (ideation, architecture, use linters, validate code, evaluate outputs, and a million other things) seems to elude them.

Dothey do requirement gatherings? Like talking to stakeholder and getting their input of what the feature should, translating business jargon to domain terms? No. Do they do the analysis? Removing specs that conflict with each other, validating what's possible in the technical domain and in the business domain? No. Do they help with design? Helping coming up with the changes that impact the current software the least…

> Do they do requirement gatherings? Like talking to stakeholder and getting their input of what the feature should, translating business jargon to domain terms? No.

Why not? This is a translation problem so right up its alley.

Give it tool access to communicate directly with stakeholders (via email or chat) and put it in a loop to work with them until the goal is reached (stakeholders are happy). Same as a human would do.

And of course it will still need some steering by a "manager" to make sure it's building the right things.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dothey do requirement gatherings? Like talking to stakeholder and getting their input of what the feature should, translating business jargon to domain terms? No. Do they do the analysis? Removing specs that conflict with each other, validating what's possible in the technical domain and in the business domain? No. Do they help with design? Helping coming up with the changes that impact the current software the least…

I mean, if you "program" (prompt) them to do those stuff, then yeah, they'll do that. But you have to consider the task just like if you handed it over to a person with absolutely zero previous context, and explain what you need from the "requirements gathering", and how it should handle that. None of the LLMs handle any of those things by themselves, because that's not what they're designed for. They're programmable…

> But you have to consider the task just like if you handed it over to a person with absolutely zero previous context,

Which no one does. Even when hiring someone, there's the basic premise that they know how they should do the job (interns are there to learn, not to do). And then they are trained for the particular business context, with a good incentive to learn well and then do the job well.

You don't just suddenly wake up and find yourself at an unknown company being asked to code something for a jira task. And if you do find yourself in such situation, the obvious thing is to figure what's going on, not "Sure, I'll do it".

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#33
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so Claude in this case was a bandaid over a communication problem (the artists not getting the memo about not suddenly showing up with new equipment that you have to support, with no prior discussion, warning, or heads-up). It absolutely is a game changer. Now the game for you is to deal with whatever equipment they throw at you, because nobody is going to bother consulting you in advance. Just use AI, bro. Good…

Chill Winston! Artists in residency are not know for being technical. They are not divas demanding support but individuals who are supposed to have access to resources, space, and support that allows them to develop as artists. The spaces they are working with often benefit from having talented creatives but this isn't a performance gig we're talking about.

>Artists in residency are not know for being technical.

They use the technology, they make the decisions about technology (like which cameras to use), and they literally can't do their work without the tech

— they better be at list a little "technical" for their own sake.

The idea of knowing your gear has nothing to do with artistry. This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

And if they're "not known for being technical", they better consult someone who is (that is, you) before making decisions about technology (like choosing equipment for the job).

The problem here wasn't their lack of technical expertise.

The problem was the artists suddenly showing up one day with strange equipment.

The solution here is asking the artists to check in with you about gear as soon as they are signed up, and talking to you BEFORE getting new gear.

That's it. They don't have to be more technical. They need to help you help them.

You said it yourself that this would not have been a problem for you without Claude if you had more time to deal with it.

The problem was a lack of advance warning. And it's a solvable problem.

These artists might not have been divas before that residency.

But the policy of not having to consult the tech before bringing in gear and expecting it to just work, on zero notice, while remaining "not technical" — that turns them into divas.

If they are not making these demands, who does?

If that's you, that sounds rather masochistic. In which case using Claude to dull the pain seems rather counterproductive in the short term.

Seriously though, Claude isn't a solution for setting expectations and communication, which is the real problem here.

You could've still used Claude to write that driver. But you could have also had the several days to do it, and it wouldn't be an example of Claude saves the day any more.

Or — better yet — you could've given the artists a chance to reconsider their gear choices.

There might not have been a reason why they picked that gear in the first place instead of one you could've worked with easily (did you ask?).

You didn't enable the artists to do their job. You enabled them to make uninformed gear decisions.

That's not helping them in the long term; it's just setting them up for failure. Claude can't code around an API that isn't there, or a hardware incompatibility.

And that's before we get to the most important aspect of art: limitation breeds creativity. This sort of babysitting isn't helping the art either.

If the goal is to help them develop as artists, then it seems you're accomplishing the opposite.

Have you at least told them that they've created a problem for you? They'd want to know that. People usually don't want to create problems for others.

As for me — I'm chill AF in the first place; and I'm not against using chatbots to solve problems — it's just that I'm not convinced that Claude is the right LLM to use here.

Perhaps asking ChatGPT about this situation, and how to talk to artists (and shape the equipment policy for your space) would do much more impact on the problem you said is recurring on a weekly basis than using Claude to put more bandaids on a pile of bandaids.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#34
post #4

And again, the most convoluted setup for development with an example that fails to demonstrate why you should adopt such practice. It’s like doing a GDB demo with an hello world program. Or doing Linux From Scratch to show how you can browse the web. The goal of software engineering is not to write code faster. Coding is itself a translation task (and a learning workflow, as you can’t keep everything in your head). W…

I've used Copilot a bit and found it helpful for both coding and maintenance. My setup is pretty basic, and I only use it in places where the task is tedious and I am confident reviewing the diff or other output is sufficient. Things like:

"Refactor: We are replacing FlogSnarble with FloozBazzle. Review the example usage below and replace all usage across the codebase. "

"In the browser console I see the error below. The table headers are also squished to the left while the row contents are squished to the right. Propose a fix. ."

"Restructure to early exit style and return an optional rather than use exceptions."

"Consolidate sliceCheese and all similar cheese-related utility functions into one file. Include doc comments noting the original location for each function."

By construction the resulting changes pass tests, come with an explainer outlining what was changed and why, and are open in tabs in VS Code for review. Meanwhile I can spend the time reading docs, dealing with house keeping tasks, and improving the design of what I'm doing. Better output, less RSI.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you "program" (prompt) them to do those stuff, then yeah, they'll do that. But you have to consider the task just like if you handed it over to a person with absolutely zero previous context, and explain what you need from the "requirements gathering", and how it should handle that. None of the LLMs handle any of those things by themselves, because that's not what they're designed for. They're programmable…

> But you have to consider the task just like if you handed it over to a person with absolutely zero previous context, Which no one does. Even when hiring someone, there's the basic premise that they know how they should do the job (interns are there to learn, not to do). And then they are trained for the particular business context, with a good incentive to learn well and then do the job well. You don't just suddenl…

I don't understand the argument, I haven't said humans act like that, what I said is how you have to treat LLMs if you want to use it for things like that.

If you're somehow under the belief that LLMs will (or should) magically replace a person, I think you've built the wrong understanding of what LLMs are and what they can do.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was just an example. The real meat behind the example is what someone said today and that I'm now stealing: AI helps with a faster tech debt generation. Having $anyone asking for $anything in a hurry it's probably the #1 cause of tech debt. If now with AI all the answers are going to be "yes, sure!" well, tech debt will go up.

the answer was "yes, sure" before AI too. the difference is whether you're going to do overtime staying up to 2AM trying to make things work.

Not in my case. But overstaying, at least here in Europe, is not seen as a good thing, while using AI starts to be encouraged by CTOs and CEOs.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#37
post #27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crypto discussion again. "All our critics are clueless morons who haven't realised the one true meaning of things". Have you once considered that critics have tried these tools in all these combinations and found them lacking in more ways than one?

The huge gap between the people who claim "It helps me some/most of the time" and the other people who claim "I've tried everything and it's all bad" is really interesting to me. Is it a problem of knowledge? Is it a problem of hype that makes people over-estimate their productivity? Is it a problem of UX, where it's hard to figure out how to use these tools correctly? Is it a problem of the user's skills, where low-…

I think it's going to be personal. Because people define values in different ways, and the definition depends on the current context. I've used LLMs for things like shellscript, plotting with pyplot, explanations,... But always taking the output with a huge grain of salt. What I'm looking for is not the output itself, but the direction it can give me. But the only value is when I'm pressed for time and can't use a more objective and complete approach.

When you read the manual page for a program, or the documentation for a library, the things described always (99.99999...%) exist. So I can take it as objective truth. The description may be lacking, so I don't have a complete picture, but it's not pure fantasy. And if it turns out that it is, the solution is to drop it and turn back.

So when I act upon it, and the result comes back, I question my approach, not the information. And often I find the flaw quickly. It's slower initially, but the final result is something I have good confidence in.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The huge gap between the people who claim "It helps me some/most of the time" and the other people who claim "I've tried everything and it's all bad" is really interesting to me. Is it a problem of knowledge? Is it a problem of hype that makes people over-estimate their productivity? Is it a problem of UX, where it's hard to figure out how to use these tools correctly? Is it a problem of the user's skills, where low-…

I think it's going to be personal. Because people define values in different ways, and the definition depends on the current context. I've used LLMs for things like shellscript, plotting with pyplot, explanations,... But always taking the output with a huge grain of salt. What I'm looking for is not the output itself, but the direction it can give me. But the only value is when I'm pressed for time and can't use a mo…

> And often I find the flaw quickly. It's slower initially, but the final result is something I have good confidence in.

I guess what I'm looking for are people who don't have that experience, because you seem to be getting some value out of using LLMs at least, if I understand you correctly?

There are others out there who have tried the same approach, and countless of other approaches (self-declared at least) yet get 0 value from them, or negative value. These are the people I'm curious about :)

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#39
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point! His approach worked in practice, but it would never work in a theoretical situation where proving a point is more important than just solving the problem, so it's obviously worthless.

"Use the cameras you used last time for this gig, we'll work out something for the next one" If uttering a sentence like this is a "theoretical" solution for you, I don't know what to tell you, except that you're not going to have a good time in any job until you learn the practicality of saying "no" the hard way . And if you're living your life where the only "solution" to any problem created by stupidity, miscommun…

> And if you're living your life where the only "solution" to any problem created by stupidity, miscommunication, and bad planning of other people is saying "yes, sir!” and enabling them to do more if it

I'm not sure if you've ever worked in a "creative" environment filled with artists, either professionally or not, but the goal is almost never to come up with a solution that is technological superior or even "correct", it just have to work for the session, maybe two.

If you're a technical contributor to such an environment, then your "job" is basically to support their whims, that's how the project moves forward. Saying "no" when an artist approaches you isn't really in the job requirements, but of course you can steer them into a different direction, but ultimately they steer the ship, and they have to.

But ultimately your job in those cases are to support the vision of someone else, often by any means necessary and fast too.

Re: Developing with GitHub Copilot Agent Mode and MCP

#40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chill Winston! Artists in residency are not know for being technical. They are not divas demanding support but individuals who are supposed to have access to resources, space, and support that allows them to develop as artists. The spaces they are working with often benefit from having talented creatives but this isn't a performance gig we're talking about.

>Artists in residency are not know for being technical. They use the technology, they make the decisions about technology (like which cameras to use), and they literally can't do their work without the tech — — they better be at list a little "technical" for their own sake. The idea of knowing your gear has nothing to do with artistry. This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. And if they're "no…

> The problem was the artists suddenly showing up one day with strange equipment.

again, this is not a problem but a basic expectation when you do media arts residencies. Just like it's an expectation when you work in the event industry that you're going to get gigs for making something in the morning for an event happening in the evening.

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