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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#31

Post by stn8188 »

mouse_ wrote: post #5

Dealership near me has got some 2024-25 model Mitsubishis for like 19k new. They look pretty sweet.

I'm assuming this is the Mirage, which is one of the cars we own for the family (the other is an old Odyssey to fit all the kids). The Mirage is an absolute joy to own: its simple 3cyl engine gets 50mpg if I'm careful. We live in a very rural area (i.e. walking and biking for a big family is impossible and dangerous), so having something economical to drive is a huge help. We drive it any time we aren't taking the whole family somewhere!

Of course in the article, I see the Mirage is noted as discontinued. How frustrating.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#32

Post by blharr »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #11
999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

Cars are a reflection of ones personality here in the Midwest. Some grow out of it or never subscribe to the mentality. It's certainly cheaper to bicycle, weather and health permitting. Though car driving and ownership are a big cultural phenomenon, especially among men 18-50.

>Weather and health permitting

Environment as well. In terms of "safety" it is unfortunately very risky to bike (or even walk) in my area due to the sprawling roads everywhere. Drivers don't look out for anything other than large boxes, and I've quickly had way too many close calls to consider it useful.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#33

Post by fwip »

BatFastard wrote: post #9

https://www.slate.auto/ With rebates a 20,000 truck. Who knows what it will cost when it actually comes out. But I love the concept.

Note that those rebates would be entirely killed under the current Trump budget bill [1], so we'll see what happens.

I also love the concept, it's a bunch of things I've been looking for but unable to find in the US market. The final price/availability as well as repairability are going to be the dealmakers.

[1] https://electrek.co/2025/06/28/republicans-are-trying-kill-7...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#34

Post by dzhiurgis »

999900000999 wrote: post #15
paulryanrogers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are a reflection of ones personality here in the Midwest. Some grow out of it or never subscribe to the mentality. It's certainly cheaper to bicycle, weather and health permitting. Though car driving and ownership are a big cultural phenomenon, especially among men 18-50.

Depends on the man, I’ll admit in my early twenties I meet a few partners by being car free. I legit took a girl home after I asked her if she knew why the train was late. In Amsterdam at least one of the train stations has a piano. It becomes a 3rd place were people can make friends and socialize. We don’t have many 3rd places in the US where you can exist without spending money.

Do you have example of places with density similar to US where public transport works well? Australia has some in urban centres, but otherwise car centric. Same in NZ. Elecric bus to my place costs 8x more than driving EV (before it was taxed)

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#35

Post by AlotOfReading »

Everything in here matches with my experience in the auto industry, but I don't think it gets the whole truth. Car companies, particularly the American and German brands, make the vast majority of their money from new car buyers and leasers, not the used car market. Over the past few decades, OEMs have focused almost exclusively on serving those customers, to the detriment of virtually everyone else. Those are very different customers than the people who want to buy $25k cars. Worse, even if you do sell that kind of vehicle, it depreciates and goes right back into circulation on the used market competing against the new cars because the customers are ultimately very utilitarian and lack brand loyalty, unlike the higher end customers. You can't even count on those higher end customers to reliably purchase the higher trim models because of the "status" aspects of a cheap car.

It's a tough market that OEMs don't want to be in, so they cede it almost entirely to foreign OEMs that haven't moved upmarket yet. Foreign OEMs are structurally incapable of selling cars at those prices (by design), so the bottom end of the market gets hollowed out to nothing but a few "loss leader" vehicles.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#36

Post by iancmceachern »

999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco.

We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city.

We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing.

The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership.

One can buy a new F250 diesel for $80k, drive it for 6 years towing heavy loads and working hard. And sellnit for more than half what they paid for it. During that time the only costs are routine maintenance, no major repair bills.

One can also buy a luxury car or SUV, say a BMW, for the same price and 6 years later it is most certainly not worth half what they paid for it, and they typically paid tens of thousands in repair costs.

The next argument people make is that a big truck is inefficient. The simple fact is my F250 diesel gets the same as your BMW M3. But it can be used for work, and is.

Financially, I would argue that it makes no sense to buy a new vehicle above $50k that isn't a diesel pickup.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#38

Post by paxys »

One fact not mentioned in the article - Americans now owe $1.64 trillion in auto loans, and cars make up 9% of all consumer debt in the country. In fact we now owe more on cars than student loans. The average loan term is rising - almost 6 years now. 60-day delinquency on auto loans is at 6.6%, the highest ever recorded, and is as high as 9% in some states.

So while car prices keep going up, people also keep going deeper into debt to buy one they can't afford.

You can blame manufacturers or banks, but ultimately the problem is unchecked consumerism and treating cars as a status symbol, which is sadly pervasive in this country.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#39

Post by dumbledoren »

marssaxman wrote: post #22
clickety_clack wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make pretty good tech money and I can’t imagine spending that much on a car. It would be cheaper to uber everywhere I went.

Likewise - it's funny to me that $25,000 is cited as an "affordable" price for a car, when that's almost double what I spent on the most expensive car I've ever owned (a Land Rover Discovery II, which was a lovely machine). I cannot imagine what it would feel like to look at a $60,000 price tag and think, "yes, this would be a sensible use of money".

$60,000 is a sensible use of money because the car company investors want their ever-increasing profits.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#40

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

BatFastard wrote: post #9

https://www.slate.auto/ With rebates a 20,000 truck. Who knows what it will cost when it actually comes out. But I love the concept.

it’s a shame that they’re spending so much of their capital on manufacturer side customizability. An electric vehicle is a firmware update away from being a stick welder already; make the truck one way and ship it with a pair of jumper cables, a box of 6011, and a pallet of tube steel.
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