Live data from Hacker News

Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

jamesmcm.github.io

31–40 of 133 posts

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#31

Slightly misleading title, this is more “getting to the IPv4 internet via an IPv6 tunnel through a VPS”. Also just called 4in6. Interesting nonetheless! We find at our ISP that if we break something with IPv4 we experience a very different type of support issue to if we break IPv6. Breaking v4 results in, broadly, a pretty hard “down” state. While folks are unhappy, it is at least simple. Breaking v6 results in weird…

When my IPv4 died last time, I noticed it mostly because Github didn't work anymore. These days, most consumer websites just work on IPv6. That said, people whose routers were only provisioned IPv4 DNS servers did have a full outage.

If Microsoft would get off their incompetent assets already, my biggest concern would've been remembering the mDNS hostname I've assigned to my router so I could log in and see if IPv4 is back already.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#32
Why would I ever need IPv6 at home or in my office? Explain to me logically why I need it in my house or in my office?

I do not care about using up the last internet address because that is akin to the 'think of the children' crap used to justify things on an emotional level in order to manipulate people.

There's no way I'll exhaust the private address spaces and I not not see NAT as a negative.

I do not want my fridge or toaster on the internet. I do not want my phone always on the internet. Nor do I carry a smrt phone or use WiFi as everything in my house is hard-wired.

So it seems like all I would ever need is a 4-to-6 gateway solution of some sort . Devices in my house or office will not ever really need IPv6 or a 'dual-stack' and all that extra complexity is a waste of time... what problem is it supposed to be solving exactly?

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#33

Slightly misleading title, this is more “getting to the IPv4 internet via an IPv6 tunnel through a VPS”. Also just called 4in6. Interesting nonetheless! We find at our ISP that if we break something with IPv4 we experience a very different type of support issue to if we break IPv6. Breaking v4 results in, broadly, a pretty hard “down” state. While folks are unhappy, it is at least simple. Breaking v6 results in weird…

Mirrors my experience. IPv6 issues are frustratingly hard to triage and reproduce, lots of “works on my machine” etc.

I think it's because of all of those transition mechanisms and fallback code added over the years. IPv6 fails the same way IPv4 does, but because of the terrible bullshit ISPs do to IPv6 connections, you end up with tons of software triggering obscure timeouts and fallback mechanisms that lead to a system of almost working networking code.

If the absence of IPv6 would've been treated the same way absence of IPv4 is, troubleshooting would've become a lot clearer. In fact, it probably would've been easier because ISPs can't just ignore and disable ICMP on IPv6 so you can actually get a hunch where in the network the problem is rather than seeing traffic vanish into the void.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#34
post #11

Blockers for switching off IPv4: - I am using alternative search engines, and it seems most do not provide IPv6 connectivity (when they are not wrecked by big tech gigantic network resources, you know "AI"... how to conveniently DDOS alternatives...) - github.com: zero ipv6 last time I did check. This is microsoft, do not expect anything good, actually expect the worst, for instance they broke recently noscript/basic…

Everything was going just fine with v6-only in my mini homelab...until I needed GitHub for something or other. And thus I set up NAT64+NAT64. It felt like a real shame to have to do that just for GitHub. I would've needed to eventually for my mail server anyway, but this was a super lame reason to need NAT64 sooner rather than later.

This is one of the (imo several) downsides of people using GitHub has a software distribution mechanism.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#35
I have strong opinions about ipv4, especially since I'm forced to use an ipv4 isp. The lack of ipv6 adoption should be considered one of the great failures of tech. Who actually is responsible? Is it router manufacturers writing poor quality firmware, ipv4 advocates in leadership positions at isps, ipv4 address speculators, poor training of network engineers and tech support staff? I think we all need to have a much greater discussion with the internet at large and not just on isolated web posts and subreddits.

For comparison, the internet mostly transitioned off of TLS 1.0 just fine, why can't we do the same for transitioning off ipv4? Maybe AI powered proxies for legacy code perhaps?

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#36

I'm in the same situation myself. It's quite frustrating, since 2 weeks I have been told that "the ticket is open and the technicians will take a look soon". Not sure if stuff like this has a low priority since IPv6 works and it's not considered a total outtage? In Germany there are laws to grant consumers compensation in those cases, but I'll see if this counts soon enough. One problem with the solution in this blog…

Fritzbox actually has some very nice GUI steps for configuring a VPN connection, intended for Fritzbox to Fritzbox connections but any compatible VPN will do. It also allows setting up static IPv4/IPv6 routes (Home Network>Network>Network Settings>Additional settings>IPv4 routes/IPv6 routes).

The biggest problem you'd probably run into is figuring out what kind of IPsec encryption configuration the router expects from the other side (Wireguard should be a lot easier but then you may run into hardware acceleration issues).

If you need to get down to it, you can also make a backup of the Fritzbox config file, edit the dump to manually configure the VPN endpoint, recalculate the checksum (there are tools for that), and re-import the config file. AVM has loads of config not accessible to the user that you can tweak that way, but they make it a bit hard to access so you don't accidentally brick your router.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#37

If anyone wants to try / use IPv6, but their ISP does not provide it, Hurricane Electric (HE) has offered a tunnel service for many years now: * https://tunnelbroker.net * https://ipv6.he.net There are scrips available to bring up a tun device on your system (or router) and route traffic over it: * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6_tunnel_via_Hurricane_Ele... * https://brandonrozek.com/blog/obtaining-ipv6-address-h…

Happy "customer" here. I've been using their free 6in4 tunnel through OpenBSD for about five years and have had no mentionable problems. I configure mine solely with OpenBSD's network interface files, e.g. /etc/hostname.gif0:

  tunnel  
  inet6  128 alias 
  !route -n add -inet6 default 
I use the connectivity to reach a cluster of VPSes in AWS deliberately set-up without public IPv4 addressing, which would otherwise represent a large part of the monthly costs because of buttholes like Jeff Bezos actively monetizing IPv4 address space.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#38
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think many CDNs/game servers or good chunks of them are still IPv4 only. I have created a DNS proxy for this problem, it will add the correct AAAA records on such domains. https://gitlab.com/miyurusankalpa/IPv6-dns-server

CDN, not DNS.

It mostly matches domains of CDNs at the DNS level.

It should be really called a DNS proxy.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#39
post #11

Blockers for switching off IPv4: - I am using alternative search engines, and it seems most do not provide IPv6 connectivity (when they are not wrecked by big tech gigantic network resources, you know "AI"... how to conveniently DDOS alternatives...) - github.com: zero ipv6 last time I did check. This is microsoft, do not expect anything good, actually expect the worst, for instance they broke recently noscript/basic…

I don't think moving off IPv4 is on anyone's radar yet, unless you're buying VPS services that often come with a discount when you run on IPv6 only. In practice, you'll probably always have IPv4 connectivity of some sort, even though it's probably going to become more and more likely that that connectivity is attained through CGNAT.

Github is especially infuriating. For a few weeks, they ran a test, everything seemed to work great, and then they reverted to IPv4-only again.

Email servers live a decade or two in the past anyway. Disabling SSL 3.0 or TLS 1.0 support on email servers is still something you can't do without risking email deliverability problems. Microsoft Outlook's support and spam filters don't even seem to be aware of IPv6 capable mail servers (despite their headers showing they've been using IPv6 internally for ages).

I do wish IPv6 would be leveraged more, but the fear that maybe things work slightly less well for a minority of customers seems to be freezing every attempt at actually making use of the tech.

The reason you may be seeing weird IP behaviour from mobile carriers probably has to do with the way IP on mobile networks works, though. If you're on a call driving down a highway or sitting in a high-speed train, your phone will be doing handovers over and over again, and your IP address needs some form of stability. You may even cross a border and switch to a foreign network and the entire stack is supposed to maintain a seamless connection. There are special routing systems set up within cellular networks (some of which make excellent use of IPv6 features) that will make it very difficult to provide "normal" static GUAs to cell phones. Things are made as normal as possible, but it's not as easy to accomplish that kind of stability as you would with a fixed-line home internet connection.

Re: Using the Internet without IPv4 connectivity

#40

If anyone wants to try / use IPv6, but their ISP does not provide it, Hurricane Electric (HE) has offered a tunnel service for many years now: * https://tunnelbroker.net * https://ipv6.he.net There are scrips available to bring up a tun device on your system (or router) and route traffic over it: * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IPv6_tunnel_via_Hurricane_Ele... * https://brandonrozek.com/blog/obtaining-ipv6-address-h…

One annoying caveat with these is that for streaming services, you will need to figure out how to disable those tunnels, because they're blocked as if they're VPNs for getting around region restricted content blocks.

Still works great, though. Thanks to the power of RAs, you can get all of your devices hooked up with an IPv6 address even if your router doesn't support HE tunnels, just have any device in your network advertise a /64 and it'll become an IPv6 router (assuming your router doesn't filter out RAs for security reasons).

Very useful for hosting stuff from within your home network without actually needing to mess with port forwarding rules.

Post reply on HN