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Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

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Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#31

Post by R_Edward »

jfb wrote: post #16

Don't care still want.

It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests.

Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one.

It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so you could get to a recharging station if you overdrive your range. Yes, you have a range gauge, so you never should get into that predicament, but we've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#32

Post by clarky07 »

jarito wrote: post #28
cstejerean wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect the number of people that routinely drive 450 mile trips to be greatly outnumbered by those that don't. There is also the option of renting a car for the weekend for those few occasions when you want to take a roadtrip.

Good luck with that. Renting a car for a weekend drive is crazy expensive and varies widely depending on location, time of year, etc. Asking people to pay an unpredictable several hundred dollars for the rental, then pay for gas, several times a year, is not going to work. I'd focus on 2+ car households. I would love to have an electric that doesn't suck and another car for the wife, traveling, hauling kids, etc. The…

Yeah you can maybe make it work for a 2 car household getting 1 electric. I agree that renting is not even close to a reasonable option.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#33

Post by stcredzero »

clarky07 wrote: post #22

While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as…

I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this.

What if someone made you a "range extender" module that attaches to the towing hitch? I'd design one on a detaching cart so no lifting would be involved to install.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#34

Post by swalsh »

aboodman wrote: post #20

Edit: Whoops, meant Chevy Volt. Why isn't the Leaf doing better? when I heard about it I was super excited, and if I had to replace my Prius, it would be my first choice. I think they hit the tradeoffs just right: for almost all daily driving, you'll never use gasoline. But if you have to do a long trip, you don't have to care about range. What am I missing?

I personally, REALLY wanted a leaf. However, there were was only one reason I didn't buy one. I'm a renter. Though Boston is part of a program to install public electric chargers I don't think I can count on 1.) always being able to get that spot and 2.) being able to get a charger at the next place I live at. I'm perfectly ok, with the "short" range. I'm positive 78 miles would cover 90% of my driving needs.

If I buy a home, the next car I buy will probably be an EV. Until then, i'm going to keep driving my Infiniti.

The program: http://chargepointamerica.com/program-info.php

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#35

Post by clarky07 »

underwater wrote: post #30
clarky07 wrote: post #22

While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as…

You say "still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem". But in really it just doesn't solve your specific problem. Tesla have chosen to tackle for the common case; if they tried to be everything to everyone they'd never have reached production. Don't forget that the Model S costs around $50,000. Most buyers can afford maintain a second car for the kinds of trips you're talking about.

I'm just suggesting that the general population doesn't have 50k to spend on something that only provides one very specific utility. As Musk just pointed out the other day, they are in a do or die 6 month period right now, and might not survive. The other electric car options have mostly been failures. Clearly I'm not the only person who would like to have a bit more utility for my 50k.

Keep in mind that you don't get 250 miles of range unless the place on the other end can charge your car for you. You only get 125. That's really not that far.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#36

Post by runako »

jarito wrote: post #28
cstejerean wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect the number of people that routinely drive 450 mile trips to be greatly outnumbered by those that don't. There is also the option of renting a car for the weekend for those few occasions when you want to take a roadtrip.

Good luck with that. Renting a car for a weekend drive is crazy expensive and varies widely depending on location, time of year, etc. Asking people to pay an unpredictable several hundred dollars for the rental, then pay for gas, several times a year, is not going to work. I'd focus on 2+ car households. I would love to have an electric that doesn't suck and another car for the wife, traveling, hauling kids, etc. The…

I agree with your conclusion that the Model S isn't for everyone.

It sounds like you're not in the Model S market segment. Folks that can buy cars in the $50k-$80k range typically wouldn't balk at the cost of renting a car for the weekend. The hassle, maybe, but not the cost.

There are also lots of folks & places whose weekend trips are inside the range of the Model S (consider Boston -> Martha's Vineyard, or Manhattan to The Hamptons for instance).

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#37

Post by clarky07 »

stcredzero wrote: post #33
clarky07 wrote: post #22

While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as…

I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. What if someone made you a "range extender" module that attaches to the towing hitch? I'd design one on a detaching cart so no lifting would be involved to install.

That might work. If I have to wait 30 minutes to charge (and not even a full charge) it has to have a longer initial range than gas. There is also the problem I mentioned above that the place you are going has to actually have a charging station as well, otherwise your range is cut in half. Can't got 250 miles if there isn't a charge there. Then you only get 125.

Finally, not sure how this works, but it seems that "running out of gas" would be a much bigger problem. Can't just get a tank of gas and bring it out to the car. I assume you have to get the car towed to charging station? Are there any other options? Any easy way (i.e. something I can carry) to get a charge away from home?

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#38

Post by snowwrestler »

Karunamon wrote: post #19
snowwrestler wrote: post #14

That article seemed filled with anxiety to me. I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their acquaintances will start to see it as more normal. It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between. Like any bootstrap…

>The other big issue is the time to refill I think that will end up requiring both a social tweak and an infrastructure one. Once people are comfortable with the concept of an electric car, it will be only natural to start requesting (and the necessary civil authorities adding) charging ports in standard parking areas. Imagine in NYC, a parking meter that also has a charging plug for the car. Raise the meter's rate j…

For commuting that would work fine. The issue, at least in the U.S., is the trip to Grandma's house or family vacation--which might involve driving more than 4-5 hours with kids in the car, to more rural destinations. Gas stations are fewer and far between, and the driver typically wants to get filled up and out of there ASAP.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#39

Post by runako »

aboodman wrote: post #20

Edit: Whoops, meant Chevy Volt. Why isn't the Leaf doing better? when I heard about it I was super excited, and if I had to replace my Prius, it would be my first choice. I think they hit the tradeoffs just right: for almost all daily driving, you'll never use gasoline. But if you have to do a long trip, you don't have to care about range. What am I missing?

The Leaf is a pure electric without a hybrid capability. According to Nissan's website, its range using a new battery can go as low as 62 miles:

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/range?next=ev_mic...

It costs twice as much as the Versa it's based on.

Basically, it's not a compelling package.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#40

Post by jfb »

R_Edward wrote: post #31
jfb wrote: post #16

Don't care still want.

It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests. Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one. It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so yo…

Oh, it's goofy, no argument. The only way I'd be buying it is if my income were greater sufficient that it could be kept as a shiny toy. But, oh what a toy.
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