That looks interesting. I have been dreaming of a travel workstation: A powerful phone for the computer, one handed chorded keyboard for input and smart glasses for display. Should fit in a pocket or at most a small bag. Wonder if I could buy just one of the pair, and adjust system to switch sides when needed.
Svalboard: Datahand Lives
31–39 of 39 posts
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#32Is it possible to press multiple keys on opposite axes at the same time? E.g. q and z or w and x on the qwerty layout.
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#33Looks interesting, although it's far, far away of my price point for a custom keyboard.
When the question becomes: - Lose your career as a computer user. - Surgery. - Try funky expensive keyboard with lots of research behind it, and tons of testimonials. The funky expensive keyboard suddenly looks like the cheap option. If you don't value your time, or enjoy 3d printing and assembling stuff, kits get shipped every few months, with all the electronics, and access to the files needed to 3d print the board…
I have a problem with that. I've seen how disabled users are milked out of their money (or their insurance, if they have one that covers it) just because they don't have another option. And I know, economy of scale and everything, but most of the time the huge price differences aren't justified (like commented in the $1K wheelchair post [0]). I've seen it with software (simple pictoric augmentative communication software for iPad that costs hundreds of dollars, plus some DLCs...), and in hardware (consumer hardware that costs 1 or 2 hundred dollars, but is firmware locked so it cannot be used in augmentative communication software. You have to pay a thousand or two for the unlocked versión).
Also, sadly, the salaries in my country aren't that high that it makes it look cheap compared to do it yourself.
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0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41711437Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#34That looks interesting. I have been dreaming of a travel workstation: A powerful phone for the computer, one handed chorded keyboard for input and smart glasses for display. Should fit in a pocket or at most a small bag. Wonder if I could buy just one of the pair, and adjust system to switch sides when needed.
The left and right halves are actually independent: either one can act as main or sub side. So yes, this would work fine, you'd just need to arrange your keymap to only use one hand - which is trivial since everything is configurable through QMK using Vial or KeyBard (an improved, JavaScript clone of the Vial Web editor with some Svalboard-specific features).
In practice this behaviour is really useful: I put different keymaps for Windows vs OSX on each hand, and the keyboard uses one or the other depending on which hand is plugged in as master. Swapping is trivial, as the USB cables are interchangeable and magnetic :-)
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#35Is it possible to press multiple keys on opposite axes at the same time? E.g. q and z or w and x on the qwerty layout.
The keyboard supports it, but your hands likely do not! You likely can't flex and extend your fingers simultaneously.
If you really wanted to do this for some reason (chording?) you could use too-small finger keys and press harder. But this would defeat the main point which is to be aggressively ergonomic.
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#36I owe two Datahands and used them daily for 15+ years before switching to Svalboard. I could type over 60WPM within the first hour - it's a very, very easy transition if you're already used to it! It took me a couple of months to get fully comfortable with Datahand, but a lot of this was learning how to quiet down unintentional finger movements, since you're using small muscles in unfamiliar ways.
Svalboard is way more adjustable (and therefore comfortable!) than Datahand - especially if you have small hands. It's also a massive, massive advantage to be able to change the keymap so easily - since it's running QMK underneath, you can use an online JavaScript-based tool to change any key to anything else! (and there are 15 shiftable layers, so you can also set up layers for individual apps or games etc). Macro support is great but the true killer app is integrating pointing devices into each side. Datahand had a very clunky up/down/left/right mouse emulation system, but it was incredibly awkward to use and therefore most users had a mouse as well. With integrated pointing (trackballs, Trackpoint or touchpad - mix and match) you never need to lift your hands out of the keyboard, so you can concentrate on finding a comfortable position without having to compromise so your mouse fits. The trackballs G Worm great, and using one for scrolling feels very smooth. Plus, there's an active user community constantly hacking in new features :)
The price gets mentioned a lot, and yes it is expensive. It's still cheaper than taking time off work, and for the amount of thought and design time it embodies, is probably undervalued. It's easy to fall into the trap of only considering the material costs of production now that the design is fairly stable, but bearing in mind this is one person's full-time job. There's also a very generous return policy, and a "let's try to make this work" option for students etc - so it's actually not as bad as it might seem at first glance.
Disclaimer: I'm a happy paying customer with very serious hand RSI and a long history of somewhat-successful surgical repairs. Svalboard allows me to continue working for hours at a stretch, where a flat keyboard would have me unproductive and in pain within half an hour. It might not suit everyone, but it makes a huge difference for those of us that need it!
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't take your hand off the keyboard for cursor movement on Datahands either but yes, having two embedded trackballs is pretty sweet. Aside... Datahand moved RSI pain from my wrist to my knuckles. These keyboards don't magically prevent all RSI, which is ... only obvious if you actually think on it , which i didn't back then.
I wouldn't even compare mouse keys to what is done on Svalboard. I know I personally found mouse keys unusable for day to day use, and another local DH users thought much the same, we had other pointers we used. (I used a fingerworks trackpad back when, clamped onto the side of the laplander, the other guy used a mouse, if I remember right.)
I used a combination of left- and right-handed vertical mice, and swapped between them depending on which hand was more painful at the time.
The amount of time wasted moving my hand from one keyboard-half or the other to the mouse and back was very substantial, and it meant compromising on a comfortable position of both.
Svalboard is way more comfortable!
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
When the question becomes: - Lose your career as a computer user. - Surgery. - Try funky expensive keyboard with lots of research behind it, and tons of testimonials. The funky expensive keyboard suddenly looks like the cheap option. If you don't value your time, or enjoy 3d printing and assembling stuff, kits get shipped every few months, with all the electronics, and access to the files needed to 3d print the board…
I have a problem with that. I've seen how disabled users are milked out of their money (or their insurance, if they have one that covers it) just because they don't have another option. And I know, economy of scale and everything, but most of the time the huge price differences aren't justified (like commented in the $1K wheelchair post [0]). I've seen it with software (simple pictoric augmentative communication soft…
To be very clear: Svalboard's firmware is on GitHub, and releases are made using github actions. GPLv3.
There is a reason kits are offered, and in part it is due to cost.
That said, if there is a true need, talk to the owner. I've watched this business for a while. I have enough parts to have Svalboards forever. But I decide to stay and help, because his heart is in the right place with regards to this whole thing.
That said, he has to put food on the table, and I respect that.
Re: Svalboard: Datahand Lives
#39For $1,475 CAD, imma gonna have to stick with my DVORAK-hardwired Unicomp 104 buckling spring and my Kensington Expert Mouse.
Glad to see this kind of a system back in play, but this is employer-paid or insurance-paid level of cost. Even the heaviest of my iron - all 256Gb, dual-socket, 40c/80t of it - doesn’t cost this much.