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Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

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Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my passkeys in 1password and they work fine. One key for each service, I don't see the difference to normal passwords in terms of lock-in

I'm probably missing something, so would be great to get a ELI5 for this. How does storing passkeys in a password manager materially differ from the very long/strong passwords I'm already storing in my password manager? (and it's matching against the domain around autofill etc)

Can't be phished. With a normal password manager, user error could lead to copying credentials and pasting out to a phishing page which is irrelevant with passkeys

Autofill is a good point but it doesn't help your parent who thinks the thing is broken so they have to do it manually, rather than realising it's a phish

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#32
post #19

the article mentioned passkeys as a solution but imho is only a path towards vendor lock-in. Like, "we solve your security issue provided you do business only with us". That is neither "antifragile" nor resilient. It's just hype.

I have my passkeys in 1password and they work fine. One key for each service, I don't see the difference to normal passwords in terms of lock-in

Look up passkey provider attestation. Services can't block your password manager, but they can block your passkey manager. It was used to threaten the KeePassXC devs into removing cleartext passkey exports.

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#33

> According to a report published this week, Cybernews researchers have recently discovered 30 exposed datasets that each contain a vast amount of login information — amounting to a total of 16 billion compromised credentials. That includes user passwords for a range of popular platforms including Google, Facebook and Apple. Can someone more knowledgeable than me explain how my passwords could have been leaked from G…

Others have explained what's really going on here, but I want to take a moment to address this idea that they don't "have my passwords" because that's illuminating too.

In a very real sense most of these systems, almost everything on the web today, do have your password, though that wasn't necessarily the direct cause of the problem here.

Passwords in this context are a shared secret. You remember your Google password is hunter2, you send that password to Google's web server to log in, they check, yup, hunter2 is the password, OK.

For 50+ years we've had these slightly goofy strategies with these shared secrets, which if you have a good password (so, not hunter2) and Google implement the strategy well, mean that at rest they don't really know your password. But still every single time you authenticate, you are sending them your password, and when that happens you both know what it is† - this means for example they could accidentally publish it, record it to a log, or anything else.

For less time, but still decades, we've known how to build an Augmented PAKE. With this technology, you can prove to (say) Google that you know some password, and then later, that you still know the same password, yet Google never learns what the password is - which means that even if they really wanted to they can't tell anybody else - all they can do is check that you still know your password, which is in fact the thing we actually wanted.

Nevertheless, here we are in 2025, and judging from previous times I've explained this, HN will insist that the schemes which haven't worked are a great idea and there's no reason to use an Augmented PAKE.

† As does anybody who can read the messages, which in 2025 is usually nobody else, but say 10-20 years ago was usually anybody on the path, e.g. your ISP.

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#34
Dubious origin, lots of other copies:

(17 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44316114

(30 points, 3 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44318192

(12 points, 4 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44320243

(26 points, 15 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44321381

(9 points, 2 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44322204

(11 points, 2 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44322288

(10 points, 3 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44322588

(10 points, 2 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44328038

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#35
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my passkeys in 1password and they work fine. One key for each service, I don't see the difference to normal passwords in terms of lock-in

I'm probably missing something, so would be great to get a ELI5 for this. How does storing passkeys in a password manager materially differ from the very long/strong passwords I'm already storing in my password manager? (and it's matching against the domain around autofill etc)

A passkey never exposes a secret to the website, so neither malicious scripts (e.g. via ad networks or analytics “partners”) nor malicious browser extensions can scrape the password.

Plus passkeys are inherently phishing resistant, and don’t rely on the end user being wary when autofill don’t work. Autofill doesn’t work a lot, due to broken sites blocking paste as well as stupid sites that have you enter your creds to into multiple domains. (Yes, I’m looking at you, United Airlines…)

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#36
post #5
post #3

> Sixteen billion is roughly double the amount of people on Earth today, signaling that impacted consumers may have had credentials for more than one account leaked Interesting use as "may have" as that would imply, mathematically speaking, that there are people who were impacted at least twice...

The list might also span a large time period and contain multiple versions of a user's credentials.

A common dark web strategy is just to re-bundle old password leaks to sell to white hats looking to investigate such leaks. Which is an amusing scam and one of the problems with trusting anything on the dark web.

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#37
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my passkeys in 1password and they work fine. One key for each service, I don't see the difference to normal passwords in terms of lock-in

I'm probably missing something, so would be great to get a ELI5 for this. How does storing passkeys in a password manager materially differ from the very long/strong passwords I'm already storing in my password manager? (and it's matching against the domain around autofill etc)

Passwords are a shared secret. You know it, and the website you are logging into knows it. If the website leaks it, someone else can log in as you.

Passkeys are a private key/public key pair. You give the public key to a website, but you don't share the private key with anyone. To log into the website, you encrypt a short message with the private key, and they can use the public key to decrypt it. If they leak the public key, it doesn't matter. Nobody can use it to log into the website. Only the private key can do that.

Also, there is a standard way of logging into a website with a passkey. The password manager can easily do it on every website. With passwords, every website is a little different. Your password manager can log in easily on some websites, and on others it can't and you need to copy and paste your password from the password manager to the website.

Besides being inconvenient, people have been able to write code that tricks password managers into thinking they are sending your password to the correct website when they are actually sending it to bad guys. Similarly, humans can be tricked into copying and pasting the password to the wrong place, giving it to bad guys. That leaks the important shared secret!

If someone tricks your password manager in a similar manner with passkeys (which is much more difficult because of the standard way password managers and websites communicate), all they get is a message encrypted with your private key. Maybe this could be used to log onto a website one time if they are very clever, but they do not get your private key which could be used to impersonate you many many times like a leaked password would.

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#38
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even necessary. Salted hashes are enough, assuming you used a strong password.

it looks like a lot of these are from key loggers not from database breaches, so salted hashes, while nice, solve a different problem.

I didn't see that, yikes. That's one hell of a breach then.

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my passkeys in 1password and they work fine. One key for each service, I don't see the difference to normal passwords in terms of lock-in

Look up passkey provider attestation. Services can't block your password manager, but they can block your passkey manager. It was used to threaten the KeePassXC devs into removing cleartext passkey exports.

Services manage to "block" my password manager all the time by confusing it to the point where I have to copy and paste my password manually. It's a huge security risk (because where am I actually pasting this password?), and super frustrating.

EDIT: I'm not saying that the passkey situation is great, but it's not worse than passwords. It has so many benefits over passwords that we should absolutely not let perfection be the enemy of good enough!

Re: Billions of login credentials have been leaked online

#40
post #34

Dubious origin, lots of other copies: (17 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44316114 (30 points, 3 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44318192 (12 points, 4 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44320243 (26 points, 15 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44321381 (9 points, 2 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44322204 (11 points, 2 comments) https://news.ycombin…

There is no world where AP is dubious and Forbes deserves the click
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