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Men, where have you gone? Please come back

nytimes.com

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Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#31

Post by voskresenie »

nchmy wrote: post #24
labrador wrote: post #14

As a father of a son, this is heartbreaking. I understand the motivation behind #metoo as outrage against predatory men. Men and women alike feel this outrage. But it's gone too far. My 39 year old single son was publicly shamed by Gen Z people around him for approaching a 22 yr old woman. Last I checked, 22 yr old women are adults who can say no if they want. It feels to me like my son has given up in this environme…

Why approach a 22 yr old though when you are 39? Nothing about that makes any sense. He could literally be her father.

Because she's attractive and has plenty of time to have kids, so he doesn't have to rush into getting married and having children with her. Your question also presupposes that there's some reason that he should prefer or limit himself to women his own age, but there's literally no reason to take that as the default.

The real question is, why do you care? What happened to not shaming people for their personal sexual and romantic choices?

One thing I've noticed--there are two types of people who get upset at older men dating younger women: young single men and old single women. It's almost as if the criticism is thinly-veiled jealousy, rather than any sort of principled critique.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#32

Post by voskresenie »

carabiner wrote: post #29
labrador wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very Gen Z attitude that appears to be common. It's not shared among people of older generations. A 22 year old is an adult that can determine who she wants to date without a bunch of young femininst men rushing to defend her, which is what happened to my son. "May June romances" are a thing throughout history. Only recently have we expanded this to include young men and older women.

No, that's an "everyone younger than a boomer" attitude about age differences in relationships. In the early '00s I remember the "half your age + 7" rule being a decent guideline for what's socially acceptable. That would put your son's lower limit at 26.5.

Nobody's obligated to follow your rules. We sacrificed the concept of societal obligation decades ago, and we're not bringing it back just because age gaps make you feel icky.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#33

Post by voskresenie »

labrador wrote: post #30
carabiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's an "everyone younger than a boomer" attitude about age differences in relationships. In the early '00s I remember the "half your age + 7" rule being a decent guideline for what's socially acceptable. That would put your son's lower limit at 26.5.

So if a 22 year old woman wanted to date a 39 year old man you would discourage it and call it socially unacceptable? What if she was really wanted to? Or have younger generations now infantalized young women and decided they can't make up their own minds?

No point arguing with them. These people are just the puritans of the past -- they've just flipped what constitutes purity. I'm a younger millennial and it's hard enough for me to understand the supposed 'logic' of leftie morality police, and I've been surrounded by them my entire life. If you're a boomer (judging by you having a 38 y/o son), you're unlikely to ever understand the way they think, and it's not worth trying. Just reassure your son that there's nothing to be ashamed of for asking out an adult woman, and encourage him to brush it off rather than trying to justify it to anyone. They can smell weakness, and attempting to defend yourself against accusations is (somewhat validly) perceived as vulnerability. There's nothing you can say that will change their mind, and if you show them that it bothers you, they'll just double down on the attacks.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#34

Post by nchmy »

voskresenie wrote: post #31
nchmy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why approach a 22 yr old though when you are 39? Nothing about that makes any sense. He could literally be her father.

Because she's attractive and has plenty of time to have kids, so he doesn't have to rush into getting married and having children with her. Your question also presupposes that there's some reason that he should prefer or limit himself to women his own age, but there's literally no reason to take that as the default. The real question is, why do you care? What happened to not shaming people for their personal sexual a…

Its sad that can't see why this is utterly bizzare, deluded/no recognition of how reality is, and likely creepy.

Moreover, at no point did you consider HER in your comment - do you think a 22yr old wants some 38 year old (of any sort) approaching her?

Ps I'm literally a late 30s, contendedly-single man - for personal reasons, not because of "how women are these days". If he was my friend (and someone so pathetic never would be), I'd have rapidly intervened as well, or admonished him when i heard about it. And then, tried to help him sort his life out.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#35

Post by nchmy »

dinkusmcgrawkus wrote: post #26
nchmy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why approach a 22 yr old though when you are 39? Nothing about that makes any sense. He could literally be her father.

Well, didn't you just prove his point and your comment is exactly the same sort of finger wagging, virtue signalling bs that got us here. SHE IS 22, SHE IS AN ADULT! If you think that throughout history, 40 year old men have NOT sought out younger woman to mate with, you're fucking delusional. SHE IS AN ADULT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. Your "disgust" over the relationship is no different then having disgust over a…

You seem to be the only one exhibiting disgust here, friend.

The main reason for my comment - though there's plenty more - is that a 38yr old and 22 yr old are literally a generation, and hopefully (for the older person's sake) immense life experience and maturity levels, apart.

I'm late 30s and couldn't possibly fathom being in a fulfilling relationship with a 22 year old - unless I was only interested in her as an object to be enjoyed.

That this guy had interest in her says to me that he's woefully misguided/underdeveloped. And she/the "defenders" could surely see that as well.

This is compounded by just cold approaching her in public. If they happened to meet through some common activity and got to know each other and hit it off - which is how normal people go about such things - it would be a different story.

I feel sorry for the guy, and all those here who are defending him.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#36

Post by nchmy »

bell-cot wrote: post #16
labrador wrote: post #14

As a father of a son, this is heartbreaking. I understand the motivation behind #metoo as outrage against predatory men. Men and women alike feel this outrage. But it's gone too far. My 39 year old single son was publicly shamed by Gen Z people around him for approaching a 22 yr old woman. Last I checked, 22 yr old women are adults who can say no if they want. It feels to me like my son has given up in this environme…

Yeah. Obviously there's a huge amount of nuance in approaching another person. OTOH, I certainly know men who simply stay away from women - because "that's the best possible outcome anyway, and the least painful way of reaching it".

Cold approaching someone to ask them out - especially if they hadn't yet AT LEAST exchanged smiles - seems to be the sign of a deluded/misguided person. And even moreso with such an enormous - and generally creepy - age difference.

More prudent and effective would be to approach a group, chat with them, and build a rapport. Then see where things go.

Even more prudent would be to not be so utterly pathetic and desperate, and instead just focus on doing things that bring you fulfillment. And then meet people who also do those things, some of who you will just click with. And perhaps even romantically. There's no "approach anxiety" that way because there's no "approach" at all! Just live an authentic, contented life - that's what's actually attractive to people.

The problem is that most people do not live an authentic life. But there's nothing stopping them from starting today and endless options for it. But keep "dating" out of your mind - just go and connect with people, develop interests, skills, self confidence etc

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#37

Post by nchmy »

labrador wrote: post #28
nchmy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why approach a 22 yr old though when you are 39? Nothing about that makes any sense. He could literally be her father.

That's a very Gen Z attitude that appears to be common. It's not shared among people of older generations. A 22 year old is an adult that can determine who she wants to date without a bunch of young femininst men rushing to defend her, which is what happened to my son. "May June romances" are a thing throughout history. Only recently have we expanded this to include young men and older women.

[flagged]

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#38

Post by [deleted] »

nchmy wrote: post #34
voskresenie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because she's attractive and has plenty of time to have kids, so he doesn't have to rush into getting married and having children with her. Your question also presupposes that there's some reason that he should prefer or limit himself to women his own age, but there's literally no reason to take that as the default. The real question is, why do you care? What happened to not shaming people for their personal sexual a…

Its sad that can't see why this is utterly bizzare, deluded/no recognition of how reality is, and likely creepy. Moreover, at no point did you consider HER in your comment - do you think a 22yr old wants some 38 year old (of any sort) approaching her? Ps I'm literally a late 30s, contendedly-single man - for personal reasons, not because of "how women are these days". If he was my friend (and someone so pathetic neve…

[deleted]

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#39

Post by labrador »

nchmy wrote: post #37
labrador wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very Gen Z attitude that appears to be common. It's not shared among people of older generations. A 22 year old is an adult that can determine who she wants to date without a bunch of young femininst men rushing to defend her, which is what happened to my son. "May June romances" are a thing throughout history. Only recently have we expanded this to include young men and older women.

[flagged]

It happens that groups invent their own rules, but I assure you, the rest of the world doesn't have a problem with a 39 year old man and a 22 year old woman. I don't know how the poeple in your bubble expect to have kids.

I’m struck by how much of this discourse functions as unintentional anti-natalism. You can’t build families in a culture where the first step (asking someone out) is treated as inherently suspect. Is the long-term plan here just to fade away politely?

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#40

Post by labrador »

nchmy wrote: post #34
voskresenie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because she's attractive and has plenty of time to have kids, so he doesn't have to rush into getting married and having children with her. Your question also presupposes that there's some reason that he should prefer or limit himself to women his own age, but there's literally no reason to take that as the default. The real question is, why do you care? What happened to not shaming people for their personal sexual a…

Its sad that can't see why this is utterly bizzare, deluded/no recognition of how reality is, and likely creepy. Moreover, at no point did you consider HER in your comment - do you think a 22yr old wants some 38 year old (of any sort) approaching her? Ps I'm literally a late 30s, contendedly-single man - for personal reasons, not because of "how women are these days". If he was my friend (and someone so pathetic neve…

A lot of single women hoping to start families would be happy to have a tall, gainfully employed and hard working man take an interest in them. Your group has made rules that insure the fade out of the human race through depopulation, like Japan is experiencing.

It’s interesting that you’re in your late 30s, because you sound like the same kind of moral enforcer who publicly humiliated my son. Not protective. Performative.

You didn't ask whether the woman was harmed. You didn't ask what really happened between two people who knew each other. You rushed to frame a man who simply expressed interest as “pathetic” and “deluded.” That’s not feminism. That’s ritual purification through male scapegoating.

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