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My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

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Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#31

Post by oneplane »

TL;DR: not really all that exciting. Apple also publishes a list of domains, ports and protocols and what they are needed for. The side-effects of filtering them usually means something doesn't work right or doesn't work at all (push messages, software updates, buying stuff, anti-theft - which will fail closed!).

> I have been trying to minimize to the extent possible the reach of big tech into my life

That's how integrated services on connected devices work; why the surprise? You can't both have a connected experience that works while also not connecting to hosted services that provide that functionality.

This isn't just Apple, anything that has any connected (cloud or anti-theft or otherwise) will need to function like this.

If your version of big tech is anything that provides managed services, you might as well get off the internet as it doesn't really provide that much value without it. That applies to basic services as well:

- Want email? Either go big or go home since you'll be attacked and spammed so much that unless you essentially learn to become an MSP for email for yourself it's not really feasible (and that includes all the GitHub projects we've seen on self-hosting; it's great as a one-off or hello-world demo, yet maintenance and knowledge is still required - time people aren't willing to invest)

- Want search engines? Extremely expensive to run, so you're going to consume one or not use one at all.

- Want to communicate with other people? They might use scary big tech and there is nothing you can do about it short of not communicating with other people (but that's antithetical to your wish to communicate with others).

- Want to communicate with business services? They might require you use known quantities such as specific operating system versions and configurations, certain apps, or they might not service you at all (banks, insurance, medical, transit etc.)

Can you apply a lot of time and energy to work around all of this? Possibly! But you end up not having much time left to do the things you actually wanted to do in your life. It essentially ends up similarly to what al_borland wrote: most large workflows and processes (regardless of governmental, for-profit businesses etc) don't want to make intensive exceptions just so 0.001% of their customers can be 'different', on one hand because it's not sustainable (you end up having one process for 99.99% of the users and many, just-as-expensive variations to that process for a bunch of individuals), on the other hand because it's not profitable (spending for one flavour and getting all the return on it vs. spending and getting practically no return on it).

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#32

Post by awinter-py »

roblabla wrote: post #18
footlose_3815 wrote: post #5

I'm curious what Microsoft and Ubuntu's experience is as well, so there's a frame of reference. I skimmed that list, and Devil's Advocate; It seems like most of that is functional, stuff that they want to update in the background to make sure you have a better experience when you're back? On the flip, I guess we think Apple is up to something shady? My last understanding was that they were firm they didn't sell user…

A default linux install is incredibly silent on the network. You might be seeing some mDNS stuff, gnome/firefox may do some requests to detect captive portals, but overall the amount of network traffic is pretty small and manageable. It's important to note that, generally speaking, Linux software does not come with default-enabled telemetry, and for those that do, distros like Debian will routinely patch out phoning…

> distros like Debian will routinely patch out phoning home and telemetry from the software they package

yes this. learning about the user-aligned patching in debian's chromium made me feel like I had made the right choice with desktop linux

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#33

Post by lapcat »

simondotau wrote: post #11

The way I see it is either you trust Apple or you don’t. To be clear, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to arrive at either conclusion, as it relates to your own needs and security posture. Personally I choose to trust them. My trust is not blind, and they could lose my trust very quickly. But as it stands right now, they have my trust. If you say that you don’t trust Apple, I don’t see how you could tolerate running…

> The way I see it is either you trust Apple or you don’t.

That's so obviously a false dichotomy.

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#35

Post by realreality »

I use a slow cellular connection and noticed some apple service (I could never figure out which one, even after installing an outgoing firewall) was aggressively uploading some large blob every time the mac woke from sleep, which made the whole connection useless for up to half an hour.

At some point, apple must've fixed this "bug", but the experience -- and apple's increasingly obtrusive software -- convinced me to switch to linux.

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#36

Post by gchamonlive »

st3fan wrote: post #24

What is the problem with this?

It's the problem with the benevolent dictator. It's no problem as long as the dictator is benevolent. Also benevolence is a matter of reference. Something that might be ok for most, might not be for you.

There is also the question of ownership. Do you really own something you bought if you don't control its behaviour? Is it even moral to sell stuff to customers if they won't fully own it, or if the nature of ownership could change over time without user's having a say in it?

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#38

Post by SimianSci »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #19
footlose_3815 wrote: post #5

I'm curious what Microsoft and Ubuntu's experience is as well, so there's a frame of reference. I skimmed that list, and Devil's Advocate; It seems like most of that is functional, stuff that they want to update in the background to make sure you have a better experience when you're back? On the flip, I guess we think Apple is up to something shady? My last understanding was that they were firm they didn't sell user…

My last understanding was that they were firm they didn't sell user data. Did this change? My understanding is they have a long term relationship with Google worth about $20 billion a year. Other than money, does anyone really know the full extent of what they exchange? Maybe this doesn't technically count as "selling" your data but it certainly counts as selling access to something important to Google --- which most…

Since the deal you mention was part of a lawsuit from the federal government, we actually do know alot about what gets sent between the two companies. The $20 billion a year deal you mention only applies to safari users and ensuring that the default serach engine on apple devices is using Google.com. The deal is far more about controlling competition and denying any potential competitors from being able to cut a deal with apple and thus reach a large volume of highly influential consumers. Im sure there was also value to be found in the search data of users as well, but the deal is mostly anti-competition.

There is very little go on beyond general mistrust when it comes to belief that Apple might be selling customer data. Make no mistake, Apple spies on its users almost just as much as other tech companies. The difference looks to be that Apple keeps it all to themselves.

Re: My Mac contacted 63 different Apple owned domains in an hour, while not is use

#40

Post by LorenDB »

fortran77 wrote: post #4
thomassmith65 wrote: post #2

With Apple, you want to block *.apple.com and white-list subdomains as you need them. If instead you black-list apple subdomains, the battle will never end.

Why use Apple at all if it’s so user-hostile? (I’m a Windows user.)

Why use Windows at all since it's more user-hostile in terms of overt advertising and telemetry-gathering? (I'm a Linux user.)

(slight /s here but I'm also serious)

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