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Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

trulyadventure.us

31–40 of 70 posts

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#31

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

I'm surprised that there is anybody still taking seriously "lie detectors". It's just stress provoking tricks. About ibuprofen, here in Spain (and I think the whole Europe), it's BTC (no prescription) until 400mg. Over 400mg you need a prescription. And when it's pills/capsules, it's sold in pill sheets (is that the name?) individually sealed. I think everything register as a medicine in Europe has to be BTC. Of cour…

This was something that surprised me traveling in Spain a few years back - that I had to ask a pharmacist to buy paracetamol. This wasn't the case anywhere else I've been in Europe (Germany, Poland, Netherlands, Sweden).

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#32

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

I'm surprised that there is anybody still taking seriously "lie detectors". It's just stress provoking tricks. About ibuprofen, here in Spain (and I think the whole Europe), it's BTC (no prescription) until 400mg. Over 400mg you need a prescription. And when it's pills/capsules, it's sold in pill sheets (is that the name?) individually sealed. I think everything register as a medicine in Europe has to be BTC. Of cour…

Which doesn’t make sense to me - no one is stopping you from taking two 400mg ibuprofen to make 800mg, etc.

I agree that 400mg is sensible dosage for one pill, but you buy a pill sheet of ten , you get 4000mg.

But what is the other solution just put everything being a prescription?

As for the lie detector test, in the USA it is federally required for sensitive jobs and roles - while it isn’t criminally admissible , denying one and having a bad PR team can spell public disaster but for sensitive top secret jobs, etc it is required 100%.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#33
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I think people don't really understand the requirements you need to meet to get and maintain FDA clearance. I think even under the current administration, you still could have an obligation to do that testing.

That’s all true when the medicine is made here. More and more of every day medicine these days is made in countries with fewer safety regulations like India and China. FDA may inspect them from to time but they have no jurisdiction to actually do anything about violations.

FDA does have jurisdiction. They may prevent imports from manufacturers who violate FDA regs.

Where it is made does not change the rules.

https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-program/actions-enforcem...

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#34

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

If the police ever ask me to take a lie detector test, I'm just going to refuse, because I'm a nervous person in general and it'll give a load of crap results that will be used against me. Do pill bottles in America not have a tamper seal under the lid? All of them do here in the UK, and if it was missing, I'd be concerned. Alternatively, those little foil packet things

> Do pill bottles in America not have a tamper seal under the lid? All of them do here in the UK, and if it was missing, I'd be concerned. Alternatively, those little foil packet things

They do now. I believe it was one of the changes made as a result of this case.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#35

> While in custody, she took a lie detector test, which revealed deception in two key responses[...] It did not. It revealed that the police failed to trick a confession out of her using pseudo-science. > James Lewis refused a polygraph. Sensible move - Especially when journalists interpret LDTs as per above. > They tried enlarging the pharmacy surveillance photo, but the bigger it got, the grainier it got. What did…

If the police ever ask me to take a lie detector test, I'm just going to refuse, because I'm a nervous person in general and it'll give a load of crap results that will be used against me. Do pill bottles in America not have a tamper seal under the lid? All of them do here in the UK, and if it was missing, I'd be concerned. Alternatively, those little foil packet things

This incident in 1982 is the reason pill bottles have tamper seals now.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#36

> When Pishos smelled an almond-like scent, Donoghue asked the county's chief toxicologist, Michael Schaffer, to test the capsules, and Schaffer's team determined that four of the 44 remaining capsules from the Janus' bottle contained nearly three times the fatal amount of cyanide (From the wiki page) This is super interesting, because there was a NileRed video testing this and finding that cyanide doesn't really sme…

One additional fact to keep in mind - the ability to smell hydrogen cyanide has a genetic component and 1 in 4 people will not be able to smell the "bitter almond" odour [1].

I do wonder how similar the smell of sweet and bitter almonds are, they are apparently different [2].

[1] https://academic.oup.com/occmed/article-abstract/67/9/662/47... [2] https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-are-bitter-almonds-180699...

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#37

> When Pishos smelled an almond-like scent, Donoghue asked the county's chief toxicologist, Michael Schaffer, to test the capsules, and Schaffer's team determined that four of the 44 remaining capsules from the Janus' bottle contained nearly three times the fatal amount of cyanide (From the wiki page) This is super interesting, because there was a NileRed video testing this and finding that cyanide doesn't really sme…

Differing people have differing scent capabilities. In other words, it doesn't smell like that to him.

A few thoughts:

* It's also "bitter almonds" apparently.

* Fresh almonds, canned, and older almonds all have different strengths of smell. Almonds can also be dried by a variety of means, some chemical

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#38

> When Pishos smelled an almond-like scent, Donoghue asked the county's chief toxicologist, Michael Schaffer, to test the capsules, and Schaffer's team determined that four of the 44 remaining capsules from the Janus' bottle contained nearly three times the fatal amount of cyanide (From the wiki page) This is super interesting, because there was a NileRed video testing this and finding that cyanide doesn't really sme…

The description of that video includes:

> NOTE 3: After posting this video, I got a few messages from people saying that in their experience, cyanide DOES smell like almonds. So, I spent an hour tonight doing some tests, and I think the results are interesting. I did some direct comparisons and the smell of cyanide is distinctly different from the smell of almonds. However, if I EAT the almonds, there is sometimes a faint taste of cyanide. I think this is because sweet almonds still have a very small amount of amygdalin in them, which can release HCN. I don't think it's enough to smell in open air, but in your mouth it can be concentrated enough to be detected at the back of the nose. It's subtle, but it is definitely part of the flavor profile. So, while I still don't think it's accurate to say that it smells like almonds, for some people, it might be similar to the taste. To make that connection though, the person needs to a) be able to smell HCN and b) be particularly aware of that part of the flavor.

> I can smell the HCN, but I never noticed it in the flavor of almonds, so I didn't make the connection. I was even looking for a similarity and eating almonds at the same time, but never noticed it. It was only when I became very familiar with the smell of HCN that I started noticing it in almonds. What's interesting too, is that now after noticing it, I feel like I've started to associate the smell with almonds. It's no longer just a "chemical" smell and it feels more almondy. However, on the flip side, I feel like almonds taste worse and are more "chemically."

> But either way, I still don't think that saying it smells like almonds or bitter almonds is accurate or helpful. However, based on the messages I've received, some people are naturally associating cyanide with almonds (sometimes without knowing that this was even a thing and not even knowing they were smelling cyanide). This has piqued my interest and I think it could be fun to get to the bottom of this and to do a trial with a lot more people.

My take from the video's description is that some people definitely do associate the smell with almonds even though for people like Nile that may not be the most present profile. I think the association will differ from person to person, with some people definitely associating the smell with almonds while others barely see the resemblance.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#39

> When Pishos smelled an almond-like scent, Donoghue asked the county's chief toxicologist, Michael Schaffer, to test the capsules, and Schaffer's team determined that four of the 44 remaining capsules from the Janus' bottle contained nearly three times the fatal amount of cyanide (From the wiki page) This is super interesting, because there was a NileRed video testing this and finding that cyanide doesn't really sme…

Nile Red has a notoriously poor sense of smell, to the point that it is a running gag in his channels.

Re: Poison Pill: Is the killer behind 1982 Tylenol poisonings still on the loose?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that there is anybody still taking seriously "lie detectors". It's just stress provoking tricks. About ibuprofen, here in Spain (and I think the whole Europe), it's BTC (no prescription) until 400mg. Over 400mg you need a prescription. And when it's pills/capsules, it's sold in pill sheets (is that the name?) individually sealed. I think everything register as a medicine in Europe has to be BTC. Of cour…

Which doesn’t make sense to me - no one is stopping you from taking two 400mg ibuprofen to make 800mg, etc. I agree that 400mg is sensible dosage for one pill, but you buy a pill sheet of ten , you get 4000mg. But what is the other solution just put everything being a prescription? As for the lie detector test, in the USA it is federally required for sensitive jobs and roles - while it isn’t criminally admissible , d…

I think it's more of an anti-stupid thing.

Where I am, pharmacists will often talk to you about each first-time prescription, describing when and how often to take pills. You don't get that via non-prescription, so dosage control is a hacky fix for people that won't read labels.

It's also "smallest person" thing. If you're 2M tall and muscular (eg, more mass), your dose isn't the same as a 160cm person with little mass. The doses are for the smaller person, for safety.

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