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Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

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Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#31

Post by appcypher »

hugs wrote: post #22
appcypher wrote: post #3

Thanks for sharing! I'm the creator of microsandbox. If there is anything you need to know about the project, let me know. This project is meant to make creating microvms from your machine as easy as using Docker containers. Ask me anything.

Looks great! This might be extremely useful for a distributed/decentralized software testing network I'm building (called Valet Network)... Question: How does networking work? Can I restrict/limit microvms so that they can only access public IP addresses? (or in other words... making sure the microvms can't access any local network IP addresses)

Yes! With the `scope` property.

https://github.com/microsandbox/microsandbox/blob/0c13fc27ab...

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#32

Post by orev »

dataflow wrote: post #11

Tangential question: why does it normally take so long to start traditional VMs in the first place? At least on Windows, if you start a traditional VM, it takes several seconds for it to start running anything . Edit: when I say anything , I'm not talking user programs. I mean as in, before even the first instruction of the firmware -- before even the virtual disk file is zeroed out, in cases where it needs to be. Yo…

I think you need to provide more details on what VM software you’re using. On VirtualBox what you describe is very noticeable, and it didn’t have that delay in older versions. So it could be just an issue with that VM software and not a general “traditional VMs” issue.

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#34

Post by tough »

simonw wrote: post #24
mike_hearn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which platforms do you use?

macOS on my laptop, anything that runs in a container for when I deploy things.

I had luck using ALVM which users Apple Hypervisor framework while exploring linux micro-vm's in macos fwiw https://github.com/mathetake/alvm

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#35

Post by dataflow »

orev wrote: post #32
dataflow wrote: post #11

Tangential question: why does it normally take so long to start traditional VMs in the first place? At least on Windows, if you start a traditional VM, it takes several seconds for it to start running anything . Edit: when I say anything , I'm not talking user programs. I mean as in, before even the first instruction of the firmware -- before even the virtual disk file is zeroed out, in cases where it needs to be. Yo…

I think you need to provide more details on what VM software you’re using. On VirtualBox what you describe is very noticeable, and it didn’t have that delay in older versions. So it could be just an issue with that VM software and not a general “traditional VMs” issue.

Yup I'm asking about VirtualBox mainly, I just don't understand what the heck it's doing during that time that takes so long. Although I don't recall other VMs (like say, Hyper-V) being dramatically different either (ignoring WSL2 here).

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#36

Post by tough »

appcypher wrote: post #20
tough wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you be OK with a -hardened- with default profiles docker containers one?

I don't understand what you mean? Can you clarify?

sorry i meant to ask simon directly if they require a non-docker solution

im working on a wrapper that lets you swap runtimes and my first implementation is mostly a wrapper around docker containers

planning to add firecracker next

will explore adding microsandbox too cool stuff!

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#37

Post by McAlpine5892 »

This looks awesome. The amount of super lightweight and almost-disposable VM options in recent years is crazy. I remember when VMs were slow, clunky, and generally painful.

I wonder how this compares to Orbstack's [0] tech stack on macOS, specifically the "Linux machines" [1] feature. Seems like Orb might reuse a single VM?

---

[0] https://orbstack.dev

[1] https://docs.orbstack.dev/machines/

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#38

Post by _factor »

dataflow wrote: post #35
orev wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to provide more details on what VM software you’re using. On VirtualBox what you describe is very noticeable, and it didn’t have that delay in older versions. So it could be just an issue with that VM software and not a general “traditional VMs” issue.

Yup I'm asking about VirtualBox mainly, I just don't understand what the heck it's doing during that time that takes so long. Although I don't recall other VMs (like say, Hyper-V) being dramatically different either (ignoring WSL2 here).

Try disabling Windows Defender and trying again.

Re: Microsandbox: Virtual Machines that feel and perform like containers

#39

Post by appcypher »

westurner wrote: post #29
appcypher wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it so fast? Is it making any trade offs vs a traditional VM? Is there potential the VM isolation is compromised? It is a lighweight VM and uses the same technology as Firecracker > Can I run a GUI inside of it? It is planned but not yet implemented. But it is absolutely possible. > Do you think of this as a new Vagrant? I would consider Docker for VMs instead. In a similar way, it focuses on dev ops type use…

> I would consider Docker for VMs instead. Native Containers would probably solve here, too. From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43553198 : >>> ostree native containers are bootable host images that can also be built and signed with a SLSA provenance attestation; https://coreos.github.io/rpm-ostree/container/ And also from that thread: > How should a microkernel run (WASI) WASM runtimes? What is the most minima…

> What is the most minimal microvm for WASM / WASI,

By setting up an image with wasmtime for example.

> and what are the advantages to running WASM workloads with firecracker or microsandbox?

I can think of stronger isolation or when you have legacy stuff you need to run alongside.

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