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TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

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Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#31

Not an expert in communications. Would the SerDes be the new bottleneck in the approach? I imagine there is a reason for serial interfaces dominating over the parallel ones, maybe timing skew between lanes, how can this be addressed in this massive parallel optical parallel interface?

>serial interfaces dominating over the parallel ones

Semi-accurate. For example, PCIe remains dominant in computing. PCIe is technically a serial protocol, as new versions of PCIe (7.0 is releasing soon) increase the serial transmission rate. However, PCIe is also parallel-wise scalable based on performance needs through "lanes", where one lane is a total of four wires, arranged as two differential pairs, with one pair for receiving (RX) and one for transmitting (TX).

PCIe scales up to 16 lanes, so a PCIe x16 interface will have 64 wires forming 32 differential pairs. When routing PCIe traces, the length of all differential pairs must be within >how can this be addressed in this massive parallel optical parallel interface?

From a hardware perspective, reserve a few "pixels" of the story's MicroLED transmitter array for link control, not for data transfer. Examples might be a clock or a data frame synchronization signal. From the software side, design a communication protocol which negotiates a stable connection between the endpoints and incorporates checksums.

Abstractly, the serial vs. parallel dynamic shifts as technology advances. Raising clock rates to shove more data down the line faster (serial improvement) works to a point, but you'll eventually hit the limits of your current technology. Still need more bandwidth? Just add more lines to meet your needs (parallel improvement). Eventually the technology improves, and the dynamic continues. A perfect example of that is PCIe.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#32

Not an expert in communications. Would the SerDes be the new bottleneck in the approach? I imagine there is a reason for serial interfaces dominating over the parallel ones, maybe timing skew between lanes, how can this be addressed in this massive parallel optical parallel interface?

[deleted]

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#33
That article is really low on details and mixes up a lot of things. It compares microleds to traditional WDM fiber transmission systems with edge emitting DFB lasers and ECLs, but in datacentre interconnects there's plenty of optical links already and they use VCSELs (vertical cavity surface emitting lasers), which are much cheaper to manufacture. People also have been putting these into arrays and coupling to multi-core fiber. The difficulty here is almost always packaging, i.e. coupling the laser. I'm not sure why microleds would be better.

Also transmitting 10 Gb/s with a led seems challenging. The bandwidth of an incoherent led is large, so are they doing significant DSP (which costs money and energy and introduces latency) or are they restricting themselves to very short (10s of m) links?

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#34
There is also optical neuromorphic computing, as an alternative to electronic neuromorphic computing like memristors. It's an fascinating field, where you use optical signals to perform analog computing. For example:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-020-00754-y

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44172-022-00024-5

As far as I understood, you can only compute quite small neural networks until the noise signal gets too large, and also only a very limited set of computations works well in photonics.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#35
post #16
post #2

As I understand it (from designing high-speed electronics), the major limitations to data/clock rates in copper are signal integrity issues. Unwanted electromagnetic interactions all degrade your signal. Optics is definitely a way around this, but I wonder if/when it will ever hit similar limits.

Optics also have signal integrity issues. In practice OSNR and SNR limit optics. Cutting the fiber still breaks it. Small vibrations also affect the signal's phase.

Phase variations will not introduce any issues here, they most certainly are talking about intensity modulation. You can't really (easily) do coherent modulation using incoherent light sources like leds.

SNR is obviously an issue for any communication system, however fiber attenuation is orders of magnitude lower than coax.

The bigger issues in this case would be mode-dispersion, considering that they are going through "imaging" fibres, i.e. different spatial components of the light walking off to each other causing temporal spread of the pulses until they overlap and you can't distinguish 1's and 0's.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#36

Not an expert in communications. Would the SerDes be the new bottleneck in the approach? I imagine there is a reason for serial interfaces dominating over the parallel ones, maybe timing skew between lanes, how can this be addressed in this massive parallel optical parallel interface?

SerDes is already frequently parallelised. The difference is you never expect the edges or even the entire bits to arrive at the same time. You design your systems to recover timing per link so the skew doesnt become the constraint on the line rate.

one can implement SerDes at any point of the electro-optical boundary. For example, if we have 1 Tbps incoming NRZ data from the fiber, and the CMOS technology at hand only allows 10 GHz clock speed for the slicers, one can have 100x receivers (photodiode, TIA, slicer), or 1x photodiode, 100x TIA + slicer, or 1x photodiode + TIA and 100x slicers. The most common id the last one, and it spits out 100x parallel data.

Things get interesting if the losses are high and there needs to be a DFE. This limits speed a lot, but then copper solutions moved to sending multi-bit symbols (PAM 3, 4,5,6,8,16.. ) which can also be done in optical domain. One can even send multiple wavelengths in optical domain, so there are ways to boost the baud rate without requiring high clock frequencies.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#37

That article is really low on details and mixes up a lot of things. It compares microleds to traditional WDM fiber transmission systems with edge emitting DFB lasers and ECLs, but in datacentre interconnects there's plenty of optical links already and they use VCSELs (vertical cavity surface emitting lasers), which are much cheaper to manufacture. People also have been putting these into arrays and coupling to multi-…

short links it’s in the article

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#38
post #12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

luckily photons are boson (if we ever pushes things to this level of extreme)

This comment appears insightful but I have no idea what it means. Can someone elaborate?

What the previous poster is implying is that electrons interact much more strongly than photons. Hence electrons are very good for processing (e.g. building a transistor), while photons are very good for information transfer. This is also a reason why much of the traditional "optical computer" research was fundamentally flawed, just from first principles one could estimate that power requirements are prohibitive.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#39

Not an expert in communications. Would the SerDes be the new bottleneck in the approach? I imagine there is a reason for serial interfaces dominating over the parallel ones, maybe timing skew between lanes, how can this be addressed in this massive parallel optical parallel interface?

They are doing 10 Gb/s over each fibre, to get to 10 Gb/s you have already undergone a parallel -> serial conversion in electronics (clock rates of your asics/fpgas are much lower), to increase the serial rate is in fact the bottleneck. Where the actual optimum serial rate is highly depends on the cost of each transceiver, e.g. long haul optical links operate at up to 1 Tb/s serial rates while datacenter interconnects are 10-25G serial AFAIK.

Re: TSMC bets on unorthodox optical tech

#40
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most fundamental reason is that there is no efficient enough nonlinearity at optical frequencies. So two beams(or frequencies in some implementation) tends not to affect each other in common materials, unless you have a very strong source (>1 W) so the current demonstrations for all-optical switching are mostly using pulsed sources.

I wonder if considerably more engineering and research effort will be applied here when we reach the limit of what silicon and electrons can do.

No this is not an engineering issue, it's a problem of fundamental physics. Photons don't interact easily. That doesn't mean there are not specialised applications where optical processing can make sense, e.g. a matrix multiplication is really just a more complex lens so it's become very popular to make ML accelerators based on this.
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