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Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

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Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voted for him! I actually agree with him on this though, AI is a bigger net benefit to humanity than some artists' IP.

If that’s true, can we agree to slap on a 10% tax on every AI company’s revenue? To account for the externalities?

They could on blank CDs so it should doable.

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#32

The title (at time of writing) omits the full quote in a way that becomes a glaring misquote. His quote in full has a very different meaning: > "And by the way if you did it in Britain and no one else did it, you would basically kill the AI industry in this country overnight." This is important to keep in mind. There are competing AI R&D orgs in dozens of different countries, not just America, China and France.

A lot of people seem to think AI development happens in a vacuum, but there are a lot of international implications to consider. Even if the US had some incredibly thorough process for ensuring everyone got paid for their AI additions, many nations would just straight-up steal the data anyways. So maybe in ChatGPT, you can’t ask for a studio ghibli-style photo, but in ChinaGPT (or what-have-you), it’ll work just fine.

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#33

If your industry relies on stealing to exist, maybe it doesn’t deserve to live

That "industry" is everyone's industry if AI models that rely on public data is available to the public. Then everyone can benefit.

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#36
Sincere question: Do we need new laws for this?

If I use photoshop to create a straight reproduction of an artwork by someone else and monetize it, copyright law handles this.

If I use AI to do the same, same deal? At no point did someone suggest suing Adobe for building photoshop for "enabling" people to recreate art and sell it.

So what changed? The ease of use?

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#37
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voted for him! I actually agree with him on this though, AI is a bigger net benefit to humanity than some artists' IP.

AI is clearly a net negative to humanity in its current form, and almost certainly all future forms. The fact that you refer to an actual human being as “some artist” betrays the absolute disdain you hold for humanity and in my opinion should disqualify you from polite discourse of any kind.

> AI is clearly a net negative to humanity in its current form, and almost certainly all future forms.

I'm going to make an equally supported and valid statement here and say AI is clearly a net positive to humanity in its current form, and almost certainly all future forms.

You should consider providing a less hyperbolic point to argue if you are looking to have any kind of productive or healthy discussion on the internet.

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's literally the entire foundation of Capitalism. Working for yourself, and selling what you produce yourself, is called Cottage Industry and is what Capitalism replaced.

I didn’t know that OpenAI employed all of the artists that they were training models in. Problem solved!

They don't and I never said they did. And even if they did, would one company being the sole employer of artists and paying them minimum wage, really be "problem solved"?

It seems people don't like the reality of where we currently are . Don't shoot the messenger!

Re: Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would 'kill' AI industry

#40
I'm the kind of creative whose job is threatened by AI, but if I'm being honest and cold-blooded, I'm not actually sure that I'd call what AI training does stealing—apart from any illicit acquisition of the data, that is. I'm open to being persuaded. I just have not read a really persuasive argument that when a model is trained, what it's doing is closer to stealing than it is to being influenced and then recapitulating the general form of those influences.

The latter is something we have no problem with in our culture. Every generation of artists do this. Every artist does this, in fact. It may be how creativity itself works, for all I know. But we never call it stealing, or when we do we say things like "great artists steal" and acknowledge it as a process rather than a problem.

It feels to me like when people make the "AI is stealing" argument, they're really arguing about something else and using this as a proxy for it. Not exactly sure what that other thing is. Fear of losing work and being displaced is the obvious one, and it's a valid fear. I share it! But, if that's what it is, I think we should be having that discussion directly, rather than talking around it. We always do the thing where we piss around talking about proxies, rather than going right to the agon.

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