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Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

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Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#31

Post by lapcat »

Veen wrote: post #24
neel_k wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Richard Rorty, whose humanism and love of democracy MacIntyre despised. Over the course of his career, MacIntyre went from an extreme left Marxist to an extreme right Thomist, and the only constant was his hatred of liberalism. He really couldn't stand the idea that people could believe in rationalism, feel the moral force of individual rights, or make purpose and meaning for themselves, all without appealing to an a…

Perhaps, but 20 years after Rorty's death, he's largely forgotten. I think it unlikely the same will be true of MacIntyre two-decades hence.

> Perhaps, but 20 years after Rorty's death, he's largely forgotten.

No, he's not. Not at all. Rorty has been and always will be more important, and more famous, than MacIntyre. This is not to insult MacIntyre, who was important within philosophical circles but not so much in the general public, except perhaps within religious groups, with which I'm not well acquainted.

Rorty's breadth of influence was also greater than MacIntyre's, ranging from "Philosophy and the Mirror of Nature" to "Achieving Our Country", addressing vastly different subjects and audiences.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#32

Post by cm2012 »

varunneal wrote: post #28
cm2012 wrote: post #26

“After Virtue” annoys me because it basically argues that morality only makes sense within cultural traditions, as if we’re all just trapped in our local narratives with no access to universal truths. MacIntyre romanticizes ancient communities and traditions, but ignores the fact that plenty of those upheld horrifying practices—like slavery, misogyny, or human sacrifice—and calling those ‘virtuous’ just because they…

How can reason give us shared values across cultures? Why do you suppose your moral clarity was generated from your brain and not your gut?

That's what the field of philosophy is about. I think, for instance, utilitarianism makes a lot more sense than "follow whatever your birth community historically does."

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#33

Post by radiorental »

dharmatech wrote: post #5
sisoes wrote: post #4

I am not Roman Catholic anymore, but I read After Virtue shortly after I graduated from college and it fundamentally changed my moral worldview for the better. I owe him a great debt. Requiescat in pace .

What would you consider yourself now, spiritually, if not Catholic?

To paraphrase Ricky Jervias (and probably Richard Dawkins before him)...

He just believes in one fewer gods now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SGOGH5-SCA

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#34

Post by belter »

NilMostChill wrote: post #10
belter wrote: post #7

[flagged]

Perhaps you're conflating faith with religion. Faith being "confidence, trust or belief in a thing , person or concept, sometimes in the absence of proof" Not to be confused with "blind faith" which is the above but with wilful ignorance or dismissal of proof that contradicts the aspect of the faith. Also not to be confused with "religion" which is the social construct or organisation around a central faith. You can…

I am not conflating faith with religion, but the statement clearly refers to his religion...MacIntyre appeals and arguments smuggle theology in through the back door.

Presents basic commitments as if they were simply the unavoidable presuppositions of moral reasoning, yet in practice the basic commitments he privileges are those of Roman-Catholic Thomism. By treating them as axiomatic rather than doctrinal...transforms a Catholic moral vision into what looks like a neutral starting point.

Disguises an apologetic project as pure philosophy.

“At the foundation of moral thinking lie beliefs in statements the truth of which no further reason can be given.” ― Alasdair C. MacIntyre, After Virtue

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#35

Post by sisoes »

dharmatech wrote: post #5
sisoes wrote: post #4

I am not Roman Catholic anymore, but I read After Virtue shortly after I graduated from college and it fundamentally changed my moral worldview for the better. I owe him a great debt. Requiescat in pace .

What would you consider yourself now, spiritually, if not Catholic?

Eastern Orthodox Christian. After Virtue is not a specifically Roman Catholic work, even though MacIntyre started slowly agree with its Aristotelian ethical system, and I still recommend the book to anyone willing to put in the work to understand it.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#36

Post by AquinasCoder »

cm2012 wrote: post #26

“After Virtue” annoys me because it basically argues that morality only makes sense within cultural traditions, as if we’re all just trapped in our local narratives with no access to universal truths. MacIntyre romanticizes ancient communities and traditions, but ignores the fact that plenty of those upheld horrifying practices—like slavery, misogyny, or human sacrifice—and calling those ‘virtuous’ just because they…

I think that's why I find his later works more compelling, particularly "Dependent Rational Animals," in which he grounds traditions in human telos. There are aims or goods which are common and transcend social constructs. After Virtue suffers from a great premise but doesn't quite stick the landing.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#37

Post by [deleted] »

cm2012 wrote: post #26

“After Virtue” annoys me because it basically argues that morality only makes sense within cultural traditions, as if we’re all just trapped in our local narratives with no access to universal truths. MacIntyre romanticizes ancient communities and traditions, but ignores the fact that plenty of those upheld horrifying practices—like slavery, misogyny, or human sacrifice—and calling those ‘virtuous’ just because they…

[deleted]

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#38

Post by cvoss »

oceansky wrote: post #16
CoastalCoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(checks notes on Christian theology) Yup. (Actually, I don't know how promptly they reckon fallen Christians will be revived.)

Actually, most christian denominations believe you go to heaven or hell(or purgatory for catholics) immediately after you die. But some churches, like Jehovah's witnesses and adventists believe in the "soul sleep", so the soul sleeps until the second coming of Christ, then you are sent to either heaven or hell.

> most christian denominations believe you go to heaven or hell ... immediately

> some churches ... believe ... the soul sleeps until the second coming of Christ, then you are sent to either heaven or hell.

It's nuanced and a lot of Christians don't catch the nuance, but the Bible speaks both of an immediate transfer of the soul to one place or the other upon death and also of an eventual resurrection (of all souls into bodies) at the second coming, followed by final judgement.

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#39

Post by dharmatech »

sisoes wrote: post #35
dharmatech wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you consider yourself now, spiritually, if not Catholic?

Eastern Orthodox Christian. After Virtue is not a specifically Roman Catholic work, even though MacIntyre started slowly agree with its Aristotelian ethical system, and I still recommend the book to anyone willing to put in the work to understand it.

Thank you brother

Re: Remembering Alasdair MacIntyre

#40

Post by qhiliq »

The MacIntyre piece I read first and got the most from is "Hegel on Faces and Skulls". It explains Hegel's critique of physiognomy and phrenology, which is about what we can and cannot learn about someone by looking at them. Said another way, the difference between expressions and physical traits. I think about it a lot whenever I see claims made about facial recognition systems, and in my day job working on motion capture.
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