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Gemini Diffusion

simonwillison.net

31–40 of 252 posts

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a super interesting claim - can you point to these benchmarks?

https://deepmind.google/models/gemini-diffusion/#benchmarks > Gemini Diffusion’s external benchmark performance is comparable to much larger models, whilst also being faster. That doesn't necessarily mean that they scale as well as autoregressive models.

I think there is no way to tell and we can only see with more research and time. One nuanced part that might not be clear is the transformer was a huge part of what made traditional LLMs scale.

With the diffusion transformer and newer architectures, it might be possible that transformers can now be applied to diffusion. Diffusion also has the benefit of being able to "think" with the amount of diffusion steps instead of having to output tokens and then reasoning about them.

I think it's hard to tell exactly where we are headed but it's an interesting research direction especially now that it's somewhat more validated by Google.

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#32

Nit: Diffusion isn't in place of transformers, it's in place of autoregression. Prior diffusion LLMs like Mercury [1] still use a transformer, but there's no causal masking, so the entire input is processed all at once and the output generation is obviously different. I very strongly suspect this is also using a transformer. [1] https://www.inceptionlabs.ai/introducing-mercury

> so the entire input is processed all at once

I’m a bit confused by this statement. Autoregresive LLMs also process the entire input “at once” otherwise tricks like speculative decoding wouldn’t work. Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#34

Diffusion is more than just speed. Early benchmarks show it better at reasoning and planning pound for pound compared to AR. This is because it can edit and doesn’t suffer from early token bias.

AR doesn't inhibit long planning processes, but some popular, modern instantiations of AR have that flaw. AR in general is critical for learning the right distribution.

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#35
I have been wondering about the use of diffusion techniques for text generation, it is nice to see Google release a model that, seemingly, validates some thoughts I had.

Most folks I have seen experimenting with AI are either using a paid service or running high-grade hardware (even if consumer-level). The best I have in my current repertoire is a 5700XT and am not able to upgrade from that yet. The limitation, though, has at least also given some more significant insights into the shortcomings of current models.

Model sizes have gotten quite large and coherence seems to mostly have scaled with the density of a model, leaving the smaller models useful for only smaller tasks. Context size is also extremely important from my experiments with long-running dialogues and agent sessions, but a smaller GPU simply cannot fit a decent model and enough context at the same time. I do wonder if diffusion techniques will allow for a rebalancing of this density-to-coherence connection, letting smaller models produce chunks of coherent text even if limited by context. From my viewpoint it seems it will. Mixed tool call + response outputs also have the potential to be better.

Speed is also another problem I, and everyone else, has had with modern LLMs. The nature of cycling around the input with a new additional output each time is time consuming. On an older GPU with no AI-specific hardware it is an eternity! Being able to at least track 0-100% progress state would be an improvement from the current solution. At the moment one must simply wait for the LLM to decide to stop (or hit the max number of inference tokens). I am hopeful that, even on lower-end GPUs, a diffusion model will perform slightly better.

This does now beg several questions. If we are processing noise, where does the noise come from? Is there a good source of noise for LLMs/text specifically? Is the entire block sized beforehand or is it possible to have variable length in responses?

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#36

Question for the researchers, can dLLMs be pinned down with a seed? Can they be made 100% deterministic?

Yes, as with all of these models. The only architectures which struggle with that feature are those which have a strong "distributed" aspect to their computations, where it can take much more work than programmers typically expect to ensure you're actually performing equivalent computations.

When executing any of them on GPUs or other accelerators though (dLLMs or otherwise), you do have to remain cognizant of chip-specific approximations and deviations from the standard. That can be actual issues on the chip (a famous one comes to mind where some f16 or f32 computation passed through an intermediate, undocumented f8), or it can be issues with how your software compiles to a chip (e.g., (a+b+c)+(x+y+z) is not the same as (a+b)+(c+x)+(y+z) with floats, so you have a lot less freedom to lay out your computations in a way that fits the chip nicely).

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#37
post #28

Why are you obsessed with Pelicans? What’s your story?

I'm from the UK originally. On one of my first trips to California I was up on the cliffs in Marin County and a squadron flew by and I was amazed by them - and the Californians I was with were like "yeah, you see them all the time". Now I live in California and I still can't believe I get to see them here. They're absurd - they don't look like they should be able to fly at all. They're also incredibly pretty, especia…

Visit Lake Eyre. In flood, it's home to a flock of thousands. I'm going in August.

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#38
post #37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the UK originally. On one of my first trips to California I was up on the cliffs in Marin County and a squadron flew by and I was amazed by them - and the Californians I was with were like "yeah, you see them all the time". Now I live in California and I still can't believe I get to see them here. They're absurd - they don't look like they should be able to fly at all. They're also incredibly pretty, especia…

Visit Lake Eyre. In flood, it's home to a flock of thousands. I'm going in August.

In Australia? I just checked Google Image search and WOW. https://www.google.com/search?q=Lake+Eyre+pelicans&udm=2

Re: Gemini Diffusion

#40

I think the lede is being buried. This is a great and fast InstructGPT. This is absolutely going to be used in spell checks, codemods, and code editors. Instant edits feature can surgically perform text edits fast without all the extra fluff or unsolicited enhancements. I copied shadertoys, asked it to rename all variables to be more descriptive and pasted the result to see it still working. I'm impressed.

Spell check? Isn't that a well-solved problem at this point?
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