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Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

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Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#31
post #3

This is classic American arrogance, trying to undermine international law for its own selfish agenda. It reinforces the need for the EU to break free from US tech.

You are wrong. It is not 'American' anything. This is plain corporate malfeasance and corruption. If anything its highly anti-American, borderline communist/state regime. American values include many things, one of the more important being free speech. Such a violation deserves reciprocity, stop blaming issues on the wrong things.

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America? How is what Israel wants American arrogance?

Are you not familiar with the relationship between America and Israel?

It would be good to get a honest, objective, non ideological explanation somewhere - but almost any source I find is heavily biased.

What's your take on that relationship?

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. It is not 'American' anything. This is plain corporate malfeasance and corruption. If anything its highly anti-American, borderline communist/state regime. American values include many things, one of the more important being free speech. Such a violation deserves reciprocity, stop blaming issues on the wrong things.

Sure, that is the de-jure definition of 'American' that a lot of good folks in the US also adhere to - I know many of them personally :). However, that's not the de-facto definition of the US as a geopolitical player right now and Europe can't afford to pretend those two are the same.

American values are what they are. Whether they're perceived that way is something else. And whether the people who hold those values are hypocrites or have any self-realization is irrelevant to the fact that the people believe they have and practice free speech.

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#34
post #3

This is classic American arrogance, trying to undermine international law for its own selfish agenda. It reinforces the need for the EU to break free from US tech.

You are wrong. It is not 'American' anything. This is plain corporate malfeasance and corruption. If anything its highly anti-American, borderline communist/state regime. American values include many things, one of the more important being free speech. Such a violation deserves reciprocity, stop blaming issues on the wrong things.

the purpose of a system is what it does

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not familiar with the relationship between America and Israel?

It would be good to get a honest, objective, non ideological explanation somewhere - but almost any source I find is heavily biased. What's your take on that relationship?

Nothing wrong with getting information from biased sources, as long as you acknowledge the bias and read counter arguments.

I think a good place to start is what advocates for this relationship claim. As staunch proponent of Palestinian rights, I think a good starting point is to simply read what AIPAC says about this relationship: https://www.aipac.org/policy-relationship just know they have a vested interest in exaggerating how good this relationship is and lie about how important it is to strengthen it.

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. It is not 'American' anything. This is plain corporate malfeasance and corruption. If anything its highly anti-American, borderline communist/state regime. American values include many things, one of the more important being free speech. Such a violation deserves reciprocity, stop blaming issues on the wrong things.

the purpose of a system is what it does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

Counterpoint to the general practice of ever using that phrase:

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The State of Palestine has two government at the moment which govern separate territories, just like Libya, Yemen, or China. Neither government of Palestine disputes the ICCs jurisdiction over Gaza. And unlike China there have been numerous attempts to unify the two governments, most of them were stopped by Israel. I think the ICCs argument of jurisdiction is entirely reasonable, and consistent with how the court has…

Hamas' feelings about the case aren't really relevant to jurisdiction, partly because the ICC doesn't recognize Gaza as a state, and partly since Hamas hasn't accepted the ICC's jurisdiction. The latter would require Hamas to accept ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed by themselves, not only by Israel, so I don't think that would happen regardless of the statehood matter. Libya, Yemen, and China are a bit differen…

I want to make one correction, the verdict was not 3-1 but 3-0 with one of the justices issuing a Partly Dissenting Opinion, meaning they agreed with the verdict but disagreed with the reasoning (more on that later).

So you obviously disagree with the 2021 ruling of the court, and subsequently 2024 ruling which denied Israel‘s appeal to that ruling, thus reaffirming jurisdiction. That is fine. That verdict has not gone without criticism. But it is ultimately irrelevant the court’s interpretation of the Rome Statute, and Palestinian statehood is that the ICC does have jurisdiction over Gaza. In particular the verdict did not claim that Hamas needed to accept the jurisdiction.

Now I’m not very good at reading legal documents, but from what I can gather, the court determined that it “is not constitutionally competent to determine matters of statehood that would bind the international community.” ([1] para. 108) and that it did not want to resolve border disputes (para. 113 and para. 115). Rather the court based its ruling on the right of self determination and the Palestinian right to their own state (para. 116). For this they used internationally recognized borders which were defined in other UN resolutions.

I guess you can point out the colonial nature of such a ruling, that this in effect allows some groups to determine the rights of separate groups as long as the former is internationally recognized, but not the latter. I‘m not gonna argue for how just this system is, but this is consistent with international law, as argued by justices of the ICC, on at least two separate rulings. For better or worse, this is how international law works.

As for the partially dissenting opinion[2] as I understand it—again, I‘m not good at reading these things—disagreed that the court couldn’t determine Palestinian statehood, and argued that the Oslo accords gave Palestine their statehood, and the court derived their jurisdiction from that. This ends up being the exact same territory.

1: https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/CourtRecords/CR2...

2: https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/RelatedRecords/C...

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. It is not 'American' anything. This is plain corporate malfeasance and corruption. If anything its highly anti-American, borderline communist/state regime. American values include many things, one of the more important being free speech. Such a violation deserves reciprocity, stop blaming issues on the wrong things.

Sure, that is the de-jure definition of 'American' that a lot of good folks in the US also adhere to - I know many of them personally :). However, that's not the de-facto definition of the US as a geopolitical player right now and Europe can't afford to pretend those two are the same.

It appears you misspoke. We are clearly talking about two different things.

Re: Microsoft blocked the email account of Chief Prosecutor of the ICC

#39
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICC signatories: - Europe - LATAM - subsaharan Africa ICC nonsignatories: - US - China - India - Russia - Turkey - Israel - Pakistan - Egypt - Saudi Arabia Hubris is imagining a situation in which The Hague Act is ever tested in the first place!

Meanwhile Ursula "lost" her phones text messages and is laughing at oversight. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2x7gzdr01o

Whataboutism
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