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The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

grimoiremanor.substack.com

31–40 of 69 posts

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#31
Usually when statistics conflict with whats in front of your eyes, its the statistics that are wrong.

I don't know about suicide rates but let's look at antidepressants. From 2016 to 2022, the monthly antidepressant dispensing rate among U.S. adolescents increased by 66.3%. This has been a steady increase, not just covid.

Anyone with teenagers in their home knows that a lot of kids are medicated and have high level of angst. Everyone knows that social media is almost always a net negative on their self image and overall well being. That's not to mention the sexualization of children on TikTok and Instagram and the perverse incentive now that only fans is an option and increasingly normalized.

Children on phones are distracted. I'm even distracted and I have pretty high self control. They don't belong anywhere near a school. Maybe they're neutral, but are we really willing to bet your children's well-being on that? Shouldn't we try to have them live a life more similar to that of every other teenager born before 1990?

Parents experience similar negative consequences of social media doom-scrolling. I don't need a study to tell me whats right in front of my eyes.

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/153/3/e20230...

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#32
You can’t tell your kid not to smoke if you smoke 2 packs a day, and you can’t tell your kid not to get addicted to social media if you’re addicted to social media. Kids are great at detecting hypocrisy. Parents need to set a better example with their own behavior.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#33
As almost every other commenter here has said, this is just a bad article in practically every way. It's quite possible that the problem isn't smart phones, but this article completely fails to show this.

Even the suicide data that they decide is the proper measure of mental health, and according to them proves that teens don't have a problem, shows a 2x increase in teen girl suicide.

I'm going to so something I almost never do, and flag, since this is just bait. I would love to read a case for this with a better argument however.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#34
Anecdotally, almost everyone I know laments the decline of real social contact in recent years, and everywhere I go, people are buried in their phones, ignoring the real world around them. Social media discourse is more toxic than ever, and yet it continues to be a major aspect of people’s social contact.

For sake of argument, let’s say the issue is their families. Why are so many families turning out to be harmful environments?

My pet theory is that this erosion of social contact and propagation of toxicity is affecting all of us, so it seems natural that many family environments will suffer.

I think it’s too simplistic to conclude that “teens using phones” is the whole issue, but do think that phones and the underlying tech they currently represent is responsible for causing major systemic issues that in turn tend to effect teens more.

Singling out the suicide rate as a proxy for mental health seems like a major problem.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#35
post #31

Usually when statistics conflict with whats in front of your eyes, its the statistics that are wrong. I don't know about suicide rates but let's look at antidepressants. From 2016 to 2022, the monthly antidepressant dispensing rate among U.S. adolescents increased by 66.3%. This has been a steady increase, not just covid. Anyone with teenagers in their home knows that a lot of kids are medicated and have high level o…

[deleted]

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#36
Suicide rates are not a good metric of mental illness: they are a function of several things, most obviously opportunity and access to a means. E.g., in the UK, farmers have a disproportionately high rate of suicide because they have unusually ready access to guns. This post also distinguishes itself in speaking arrogantly about teens without bothering to check any record of what they have to say themselves. I think movements like "Luddite Club" are only going to accelerate, and they will be led by young women. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/opinion/teen-luddite-smar...

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#37
This post seems to be a McNamara fallacy: "if it can't be quantified and measured then its irrelevant and can be ignored".

Look, I don't have any answers here. I'm not involved with teens. I don't really know much about this and maybe the author is correct. But I can spot a bad argument, and fixating only on suicide data and dismissing everything else as "unreliable" (based on a single small study) doesn't seem the right approach.

In addition "mental health" is complex and most people suffering from poor mental health don't commit suicide. There are different types of "mental heath" problems one can have, and it seems entirely plausible that some lead to relatively high rates of suicide and others have much lower rates.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#39

First it was rock and roll, then video games, then cell phones. When all along it’s been lack of mental health care in general. This shouldn’t be a surprise.

Yeah; this all rings pretty sound to me. I've worked with 14-17 year olds most of my adult life and everything comes down to how the kid does in their "home" environment. More specifically, how their closest people treat them, rather than any action they are taking.

Kids - even 17 year olds - are infantalized and treated as if they don't have anything to contribute. They are "supposed" to just do what they are told and follow a "normal" path of going to school and then getting a job and working. A school where they aren't allowed to learn about what they are interested in, and can only learn the government-mandated testable knowledge. A job that will force them to wake up early and commute late and leave them with no time or energy to engage in the hobbies that they never actually cultivated because doing metalworking is too loud and doing programming is wasting time on a computer and flight training is too expensive and, and, and, and...

The amount of success I've had just VALIDATING kids is fucking incredible. Talk to them as if their idea is worth hearing, and then ask them questions that make them challenge their own ideas. Whether it's about a project they think would be cool, or about how they feel about something that happened with their parents. When they can devote time to think about it, without feeling like discussing it is an attack on anyone or an imposition to the listener - they sort shit out just like anyone else.

And whenever I find myself kind of marveling at - say - an 11 year old speaking with what feels like emotional intelligence beyond their years, I remember that in the early 1900s, 11 year old's might have been fucking floor managers at a textile industry, or pickaxe-swinging coal miners. Kids are entirely capable at 11 years old and it only comes out if you engage them in ways that hone that capability. Which should obviously NEVER be forced or coerced labor. But you can talk to them like they are adults.

In any case, I've been mentoring kids since before cell phones and not a damn thing has changed. If the kid's distracted, you don't need to worry about what is able to distract them - you need to worry about why they were bored enough (or preoccupied) to get distracted in the first place. And that's really the heart of the whole thing: people really want for the kids or the "mentally infirm" or the OTHER to have to do better when the simple truth is that the person needs to be doing better. The parent, the teacher, the mentor, the friend; they have to be meeting the HUMAN BEING (who happens to be a child) at their level rather than feeling disappointed that the kid didn't meet them at some other level.

Re: The Problem with Teens Isn't Smartphones–It's Their Families

#40

This article's methodology leaves a lot to be desired. They throw out dozens of studies with a flippant, poorly justified dismissal and then proceed to take a cursory, high-level glance over a single other study that supported their desired conclusion. Having given that study a passing thought they proceed to wonder at "just how glaring this data is" from that single report and how it is that everyone else can't see…

I don't see why teen suicide rate is the definitive measure of how well children are doing. It's still extremely rare. Why not focus on anti-depressants? Surely kids being on a lot of meds is a sign something is off.

Everyone knows phones are a net negative for most children. You really don't need a study. Just go check out a local bus stop and see kids staring at their phones.

> The median amount of time a teenager in the US spends on their phone each week is estimated to be around 31 to 32 hours.

Do we think this is good? How confident are you that this is not harmful? Would you be willing to bet your kids development on it?

https://explodingtopics.com/blog/smartphone-usage-stats

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