Live data from Hacker News

To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

theatlantic.com

31–40 of 111 posts

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#31
post #4

As someone who has lived in the US, AU & the EU in a few places I'd have to say this article is great. It's something you wind up doing if you live in other places. America is #1 in quite a few things, such as software, just try naming non-US software companies that matter, it's an interesting exercise. Also the US highway system is excellent, the US's culture of entrepreneurship is also awesome. The best US colleges…

Interesting the point you made about US TV shows - it's very subjective but I'll say honestly I can't stand them. I'm from the UK and think it's something to do with not being able to relate to your culture as well as you do, and so I find them to be mostly deeply irritating. The same goes for US films - I much prefer European movies as a whole.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#33
post #17

The fascinating thing about this article is that it legitimizes the "Atlas Shrugged" response of many entrepreneurs from a progressive perspective. While there is much to be quibbled with in his analysis [1], the simple fact that we now have rationales from both sides for leaving the US and striking out abroad is extraordinarily important. Look for more people to repeat these arguments, to flee taxes, crime, and regu…

> And is bankrupt France really a country to emulate

Yes, it really is. Its people are happier, healthier, and better educated; they work less, eat better and have better relationships with their families. And are substantially less indebted than those of the US.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#34
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What really strikes me, though, is that I have experienced Turkish-like hospitality from one company in the US: Apple. Could you explain this? Because I haven't ever gotten a free iPhone for browsing in the Apple Store for ten minutes.

You wouldn't get a free rug in a Turkish rug store but Apple do go out of their way to appear inviting and helpful way beyond any of their competition.

This. I've found that business in America have a tendency to try and monetize the entirety of every business transaction. For example, I used to work at Circuit City, and if you came in to buy a TV you'd be amazed how quickly the salesperson would shift the conversation onto cables, power supplies, protection plans, etc. When the end of the day rolled around, and praise was divvied out by the store managers, no one ever talked about the size of the TV so-and-so sold. The praise focused entirely on the "attach".

On the other hand, a Turk will recognize that you are there to carry out a certain business transaction. Turks can haggle and negotiate with the best of them (another aspect of their culture). But you'd better believe that, as you spend half an hour negotiating the price of that rug, the rug seller will have had his assistant bring you tea and simit, and you'll have the most comfortable seat in the place (none of this "make the floor as hard and uncomfortable as possible so that customers complete their transactions quickly"...yes, that is a well known trick in the American retail industry).

Apple does the same thing, especially with their stores. Their computers are not cheap. But Apple will hold free workshops telling you how to use them. Store employees will help you transfer data from your old computer if you need it, and when you come back in a week, you'll get the same reception as you did before you made your purchase, even though you're unlikely to be buying another computer.

Mostly, it's about recognizing your customer as a fellow human being, as opposed to "the next mark"...

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#35
I'm an American living in AU, going to move to Canada.

Couple of thoughts.

1. Family was discussing where to live. US didn't really come up as an option because of healthcare and education. Things are generally cheaper in the US, but standard of living for our kids was considered more important. Canada in particular is very close, nearly as cheap and has better education and healthcare. Win-Win.

2. People in the US generally don't realize A. how cheap things are and B. how bad things like education and healthcare are.

3. We are taking a significant tax hit in either AU or CAN...and that is OK because of what we are getting in return. I'm actually more mad at thinking of the things we DON'T get in the US for our taxes.

4. lastly (unrelated to the article), the difference between AU and CAN consumerism culture is amazing. The change is rather drastic and, I feel strongly about this, better for overall health to not be so wrapped in the consumeristic US culture.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#36
"Imagine if a politician were to say, "France has a better health care system than we do." I can almost guarantee that politician would suffer electoral defeat "

Which America this guy is from? In the United States of America in which I am residing, lots of politicians talk all day long about pretty much every developed country in the world having better medical system than US (even though those systems are radically different and the politicians don't even bother to prove they are actually better) and they get regularly reelected. What is this thing with publishing articles in prominent magazines saying "Nobody in US dares to talk about it but I will! Yes, I'll do it and nobody can stop me!". Nobody wants a magazine opinion writer to be a hero - just a competent writer that does not insult the intelligence of their readers.

As somebody who lived in 3 very different countries, I understand learning from different cultures and countries is very useful. But in order to explain that, there's no need to exaggerate the faults of the US and present it as if most Americans are wildly opposed to any foreign ideas or experiences.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#37
post #21

This. I've spent most of my adult life outside of the US, after having spent my childhood and university in Florida. Now, when I travel in the States, I see a _lot_ of good everywhere I go, but it's undeniable that other countries are doing certain things better (I'd argue that nobody has it all together, though Singapore comes mighty close in my book). This is actually a great thing for the US in many ways -- we've…

> Now the entire world is participating The entire world has been "participating" for centuries, long before the US even existed. You may have picked up on that in your life outside the US.

Now the entire world is participating in the way of doing things that the US pioneered in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The US was indeed exceptional for most of this time. It's not anymore, but it's more because the rest of the world caught up, not so much because the US stopped (although resting on laurels has certainly slowed it down).

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#38
post #13

One area where we lag behind the rest of the world is our voting system. In 1992 Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote because Perot split the Republicans. In 2000 Bush was elected with 48% because Nader split the Democrats. This kind of voting system has been mathematically proven to create a two-party system (Duverger's Law). In many other countries they use runoff voting, so if no one gets 50%, they hold anothe…

One thing I've never seen answered: Has anyone actually stopped to figure out how multi-party systems really scale? India is the largest in the world, but also A) has Euro-style population density and B) is maybe not such a great example of a functioning representative government. France and Germany are better examples of governments that mostly work, but are dealing with a fraction of the US population and order-of-…

France and Germany are not so two-party. In the 53 years of France's current government, they have elected presidents from four parties. In the 22 years since German reunification, they have had presidents from three parties and one independent.

Meanwhile, in the last 159 years, the US has only had Democrats and Republicans.

Also, even if minor parties do not get elected, they offer healthy competition and keep the main parties on their toes. Candidates in the US hate to present concrete plans or answer specific questions. They only have one opponent, so they take the least controversial stance that will differentiate them against the other guy. Offering more information than this minimum required is bad strategy.

If other parties were in the running, candidates would be forced to take positions and offer plans, because they have to differentiate themselves from several opponents.

I don't think changing how we elect people counts as "rebooting the entire system". We would have to eliminate the electoral college, but who would be against that? It is a relic left over from the days when local election results had to travel on horseback with a trusted messenger.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#39
post #30
post #6

I agree with this. My eyes opened I ways I never expected by living abroad. I thought America was safe and it is compared to Somalia but not compared to may other contries. I didn't notice this because I've been trained to ignore it. I've been trained not to walk down dark alleys. I've been trained not to leave anything visible in a car when I park it or else it will get broken into. When it had been broken into Ive…

>When it had been broken into Ive been trained to blame myself for leaving something visible or parking too near the wrong neighborhood. But living abroad I learned some countries don't have these issues. Granted there are definitely some countries with lower crime rates, but for most property theft the US is actually ranked pretty well. For auto theft, which is the closest comparable crime I can find to stereo theft…

Without knowing the details of the statistics, I wonder if the disconnect between perception and statistics has to do with population distribution? I've lived in the suburbs of the US, as well as right in Manhattan. In the suburbs, many nights we wouldn't even lock the door. In Manhattan I was attacked by thugs with a knife in the subway.

I now live in Ankara, a city with an official population larger than Chicago, but I can walk 15 min from my home and be in the middle of a field with no signs of civilization for miles. I think nowhere else in the world has urban sprawl that comes anywhere close to what you find in America. So, if you want an accurate comparison, I think you'd have to isolate and remove the statistics from suburbs, as they essentially don't exist outside the US.

Re: To Make America Great Again, We Need to Leave the Country

#40
post #9

Even when it comes to the "pursuit of happiness," enshrined in our Declaration of Independence as one of the noble goals of government, our citizens are only the 15th most satisfied with their lives. The text asserts the right of men [mankind] to pursue happiness, not the goal of government to provide it!

It is, sadly, a very common opinion - if I have the right to pursuit of happiness, the government must provide me with my happiness. Ironically, after a century of bigger and bigger government, the citizens' confidence in the said government and its ability to provide anything resembling happiness has eroded considerably - as the author of the article notices. Even more ironically, the author absolutely fails to make this link, and complains the government doesn't intervene enough to provide the happiness to the people.
Post reply on HN