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Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

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Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#31

Post by thechao »

Luc wrote: post #18

https://www.progres.net.eg/plusieurs-messages-caches-sur-lob... In this article in French, they mention hieroglyphs encoded in the way arms and legs are drawn of a figure on the throne of Tutankhamun, and that only 6 Egyptologists in the whole worlds are able to decode them. Hmmm, I wonder how mainstream these ideas are? Do other Egyptologists respect them?

I suspect, that in the context of "reputable academically sound Egyptologist" the number "6" is a bumper crop of Egyptologists. The set of reputable academics in these fields is always a lot smaller than you'd like. I think that's why there's so many cranks.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#33

Post by cocostation »

orwin wrote: post #26
thanatos519 wrote: post #16

[flagged]

No way this was ever said. No way. It's so wild it's funny. I ought to follow US news more (and sorry for people who live there).

It's a testament to his public speaking skills that transcripts of his statements are so startling.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#34

Post by orwin »

gostsamo wrote: post #12
krige wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...they weren't?

I stand corrected. The pillaging was initially planned but failed and it was gifted under circumstances that are not clear from the Wikipedia article.

It was too complex to steal, and Ottomans historical alliance with France, while disturbed by Napoleon, was still strong after his coup ended (France had sovereignty over a lot of small territories in the Ottoman empire due to their "protector of the Church" status).

That we don't know what was traded exactly (some people say it's the Cairo clock, but it is unclear and probably false) doesn't matter. The fact that Champollion already translated the rosetta stone from ancient greek and that hieroglyph could now be translated probably had an impact on this decision, especially since among all the Obelisks in egypt, Champollion singled out this particular one.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#35

Post by krapp »

aredox wrote: post #30
krapp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans routinely destroyed the artifacts of any culture they considered heretical. They tore down Greek and Roman temples to build churches on the ruins. They stripped the Coliseum for parts. They made soup out of mummies and traded grave goods as baubles. The premise that they somehow deserve to be considered the librarians and guardians of the very cultures they colonized and exploited is an absurd, and implicit…

> They tore down Greek and Roman temples to build churches on the ruins. They stripped the Coliseum for parts. They made soup out of mummies and traded grave goods as baubles. And yet they/we changed, and have preserved countless artifacts that even their original cultures are only now interested in. Not to forget that the very promotion of those foreign artifacts played a big role in making Westerners recognize the…

And they should continue changing by repatriating artifacts if the original owners want them back. It's entirely possible that some cultures might prefer having their artifacts be kept by others, but that clearly isn't always the case. For instance, bones and sacred items taken from indigenous peoples.

And as far as instability is concerned, a lot of that was caused by the same imperialist governments that looted the artifacts to begin with, so blaming those governments for that doesn't seem fair.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#37

Post by amitport »

dbetteridge wrote: post #4
amitport wrote: post #3

[flagged]

It was a gift from Egypt https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_Obelisks

Egypt was subjugated to the Ottoman Empire at the time.

And even if they had some kind of king/dictator, it is certainly was a decision of a free people.

What antique France monuments did France give away just like that for no reason? Do not take what should not have been offered.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#38

Post by diggan »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #20
amitport wrote: post #3

[flagged]

That is just silly. Should we demand Iran returns things from Greece, Egypt, etc that they acquired during the Persian empire? Should Egypt return things they acquired from their neighbors in the past?

Depends on "acquired" means. Pillages as part of a war? Then yes, why not give it back? "Acquired" in terms of gifted by the other party, like this Obelisk, then no, that wouldn't make sense. Same goes for purchased.

But things stolen with violence or threat of violence, should probably be returned (if they want it returned). While we shouldn't hold children responsible for the actions of our parents, we can also be better than our parents and return things we know aren't rightfully ours.

Off-topic, but you're probably one of the top 3 persons in the world with the most similar first+last name as myself, with a Levenshtein Distance of only 6 :)

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#39

Post by amitport »

rixed wrote: post #23
amitport wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Actually, that's interresting. According to wikipedia[0], the frenchs did think about stealing it during the Napoleonic wars, but didn't. Some time later they "suggested" to the Ottomans that the obelisks be offered, in exchange for a monumental clock[1] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxor_Obelisks#Luxor_Obelisk... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Citadel_Clock

In any case, it didn't belong to the Ottomans to give away.

Getting it as gift from a conquering entity, does not make any of it better.

Re: Egyptologist uncovers hidden messages on Paris’s iconic obelisk

#40

Post by gostsamo »

orwin wrote: post #34
gostsamo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected. The pillaging was initially planned but failed and it was gifted under circumstances that are not clear from the Wikipedia article.

It was too complex to steal, and Ottomans historical alliance with France, while disturbed by Napoleon, was still strong after his coup ended (France had sovereignty over a lot of small territories in the Ottoman empire due to their "protector of the Church" status). That we don't know what was traded exactly (some people say it's the Cairo clock, but it is unclear and probably false) doesn't matter. The fact that Ch…

Any idea why the ottomans felt obliged to "gift" another obelisk to the brits though?
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