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AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

bbc.com

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Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#31

Post by LaurensBER »

_mlbt wrote: post #20
LaurensBER wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of their ex-members have been literal Nazis. Something that doesn't go over very well in Germany. The party banned these people but their standpoints are still very controversial, the main issue is that in some aspects they do no support the juridical system. So yeah, regular right wing compared to American standards but I think we can all agree that respecting the trias politica is a good thing in any country.

I’ll be honest, as an American looking in from the outside, this looks like the leftist parties in Germany trying to silence the opposition. If the party is expelling the true extremists like the Neo-Nazi former party members that you mentioned, I don’t see why they should be held responsible for them. This would be like declaring the entire American Republican Party extreme-far right because of a few whack jobs like…

I'm not German but it's my understanding that nothing is being banned. This classification allows the German intelligence agencies to be more aggressive in gathering intelligence of any potential misconduct within the AfD.

I'll abstain from making any moral judgements about this, I don't feel qualified to do so but I understand that the historical context places a very large role in Germany.

Any association with Nazi's is condemned in the harshest way. The AfD has crossed that line several times in the past.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#32

Post by vladvasiliu »

mamonster wrote: post #7
incomingpain wrote: post #3

Guess this will be unpopular. >The AfD came second in federal elections in February, winning a record 152 seats in the 630-seat parliament with 20.8% of the vote. What does this give german intelligence the power to do? The german government is now monitoring the telephone, internet, and intercepting emails of their political opponents? They MAY also be using informants and undercover agents? The federal ministry of…

In theory, this could be used as the basis for the banning of the party. That said , I don't think the incoming government would allow it as Germany isn't super stable at the moment. At a minimum, this will be used as the basis for removing any talk of coalitions/joint votes etc within the CDU, so Merz or anyone after him can't attempt to go around the Brandmauer(mind you, this will be enforced by the parties themsel…

> You can expect the same thing as with FN/RN in France before the developments within the last 2 years, i.e any right wing party not voting resolutions that are submitted by AfD even if they are 95% identical to what is in their own programme.

But I think this contributes to the general distrust of the population towards incumbent politicians.

I don't know about Germany, but in France the situation becomes ridiculous to the point of resembling a bunch of kindergarten kids: "I won't vote for your law 'cause I don't like you".

And now, whenever you don't like somebody, they're helpfully some "extremist", so they obviously can't propose anything good.

If everyone's an extremist, that word soon loses its meaning. See: the boy who cried wolf. People are getting tired of this crap and can see trying to outlaw a growing party for "extremism" as a shameless political tactic. Which means actual extremists may go unnoticed.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#33

Post by aaronbaugher »

incomingpain wrote: post #3

Guess this will be unpopular. >The AfD came second in federal elections in February, winning a record 152 seats in the 630-seat parliament with 20.8% of the vote. What does this give german intelligence the power to do? The german government is now monitoring the telephone, internet, and intercepting emails of their political opponents? They MAY also be using informants and undercover agents? The federal ministry of…

The establishment is working itself up to banning the party, since they're losing the ability to shut it out of the process democratically, and haven't had the sense to co-opt its reasonable positions to reduce its support. One of the other main parties tried to do that before the last election, showing a slight willingness to put some limits on migration, and the further-left parties went ballistic on them, so they quickly yanked that back. Their last resort will be to ban the party, which will inevitably make it more popular while preventing it from participating in the normal process. Then they'll act surprised by what happens next.

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#34

Post by _mlbt »

thrance wrote: post #18
_mlbt wrote: post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

This should tell you more about how far right America has gotten. What's your definition of extreme-right and why don't they fit it? Both the GOP and the AFD are acting extra-constitutionally. Trump's administration has shown to Europeans that needed a reminder how dangerous these politics can be.

I would argue that the American right wing has actually shifted a bit leftward in the past few decades. Gay marriage is now accepted by most Republicans for example. Trump is in many ways a 90s Democrat. His stance on illegal immigration, America first foreign policy, and protectionist tariffs are actually not that extreme historically for our country. The mass deportations are a reaction to the unprecedented scale of illegal immigration that was practically encouraged by the Biden administration.

The reality is that he feels far right because most of the western world has become extreme-far left. I can think of tons of former Democrats who have been alienated by how far left the Democrats have become on social issues. Besides Donald Trump, there is also Elon Musk (he was a huge supporter of Barack Obama), Tulsi Gabbard, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and even Bill Maher (who is no fan of Donald Trump by any stretch of the imagination) frequently criticizes how far left the party has become.

EDIT: I’m talking about social left versus right, not economic. For the record, I think the left versus right distinction doesn’t really work given the complex modern political landscape. For Europeans that may be unaware, gay marriage and LGBT rights were actually a controversial political issue in the 90s and even early 2000s with even many Democrats refusing to back it. Barack Obama famously “evolved” his stance on this issue.

https://time.com/3816952/obama-gay-lesbian-transgender-lgbt-...

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#35

Post by lostlogin »

_mlbt wrote: post #12

I’m not a German so take this with a massive amount of salt, but what makes them extreme-right? Is it the anti-immigrant stance or is there more that I’m missing? They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

Regarding the AfD, ‘Senior members have been disgraced for playing down Nazi war crimes and accepting suspicious payments from Russia and China.

There were calls to ban the party when it was reported party members were at a meeting of neo-Nazis where a “master plan” to expel millions of people from Germany was discussed, including asylum seekers, foreigners with residency rights and “unassimilated citizens”.

The AfD were shut out of coalition government by the “firewall”, an agreement by mainstream parties not to work with those deemed too extreme.

JD Vance, the US vice-president, criticised the firewall as anti-democratic.’ [0]

There is plenty more on the subject [1, 2, 3, 4].

> They just seem to be regular right wing by American standards.

This might be a comment on the state of American politics as much as it is on Germany’s.

[0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/05/02/afd-classi...

[1] https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-jd-vance-is-wrong-about-afd...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88nwy934go

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/25/afd-readmits-t...

[4] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-02/german-spy-agency-lab...

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#36

Post by T0Bi »

_mlbt wrote: post #20
LaurensBER wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of their ex-members have been literal Nazis. Something that doesn't go over very well in Germany. The party banned these people but their standpoints are still very controversial, the main issue is that in some aspects they do no support the juridical system. So yeah, regular right wing compared to American standards but I think we can all agree that respecting the trias politica is a good thing in any country.

I’ll be honest, as an American looking in from the outside, this looks like the leftist parties in Germany trying to silence the opposition. If the party is expelling the true extremists like the Neo-Nazi former party members that you mentioned, I don’t see why they should be held responsible for them. This would be like declaring the entire American Republican Party extreme-far right because of a few whack jobs like…

The anti immigration stance is not the problem in itself, it's a symptom of their xenophobic views.

"The party's prevailing ethnic and descent-based understanding of the people is not compatible with the free democratic basic order. It aims to exclude certain population groups from equal participation in society, to subject them to unequal treatment that does not conform to the constitution and thus to assign them a legally devalued status. Specifically, the AfD does not consider German citizens with a history of migration from Muslim countries, for example, to be equal members of the German people as defined by the party in ethnic terms."

Translated with deepl from https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilung...

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#37

Post by thrance »

roenxi wrote: post #16

Given that AfD represents ~20.8% of the vote, 25% of the Bundestag and have upwards trending poll numbers; we can probably start talking about the collapse of democracy in Germany if they aren't allowed to engage politically as any other party. These numbers are too large to ignore. I wish the Germans the best of luck and reiterate that declaring war on their own energy supply was probably a mistake.

So, tell me again how you'll be preventing the "collapse of democracy" by not condemning the anti-democratic party?

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#38

Post by flohofwoe »

_mlbt wrote: post #20
LaurensBER wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of their ex-members have been literal Nazis. Something that doesn't go over very well in Germany. The party banned these people but their standpoints are still very controversial, the main issue is that in some aspects they do no support the juridical system. So yeah, regular right wing compared to American standards but I think we can all agree that respecting the trias politica is a good thing in any country.

I’ll be honest, as an American looking in from the outside, this looks like the leftist parties in Germany trying to silence the opposition. If the party is expelling the true extremists like the Neo-Nazi former party members that you mentioned, I don’t see why they should be held responsible for them. This would be like declaring the entire American Republican Party extreme-far right because of a few whack jobs like…

See for yourself: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B6rn_H%C3%B6cke

(even if parts of the AfD may not be openly fascists, they still tolerate them in leading positions)

Re: AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence

#40

Post by qoez »

Jackpillar wrote: post #22
qoez wrote: post #15

I wish there was tighter rules around what stays on the front page of HN. I come here for tech news or interesting nerdy blog posts not this stuff.

[flagged]

I just want to guard my attention and spend it on soul fulfilling things instead of this, life is too short.
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