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NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

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Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#31

Post by sathackr »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #5
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

It's resign or follow my orders. There's not much wiggle room in-between, and the lawsuits will probably cost you everything anyway.

There's tons of people that don't follow the boss's orders to a T and don't resign and don't get fired. And they would be much less effective at enacting their boss's agenda than someone who "just followed orders"

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#32

Post by stouset »

ttoinou wrote: post #24
jfengel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but we'll have stuck it to the woke, and that's what counts.

“stick it to all the too-tolerent people who let the woke movement gain power” would be a good steel manning of your argument

Which people in the woke movement had power, and what were some of the woke policies that they enacted?

Every time I go down this line, it’s all vague boogeymen or claims of events that don’t hold up to scrutiny.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#33

Post by jajko »

bananapub wrote: post #15

Pretty distressing at how there’s basically zero pushback from the American elites at the destruction of all strategic American advantages and only ineffective pushback from the public. There will be entire genres of books written about how America just said “eh” to being gutted by a bunch of rich psychopaths.

With Brexit Brits got exactly what was promised, they just didn't realize what that promise actually meant and very few are happy about it these days.

This is next level of "I'll deliver anyway, I know what you wanted" while fucking it up spectacularly. If only all of our pensions wouldn't be now siphoned to those few with advanced government access I would be laughing a bit more.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#34

Post by barkingcat »

sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

I completely understand resigning on principles. It's a reflection of an internal state where you cannot fight (due to reporting chain of command) and the idea that leaving to fight is a stronger position than staying and fighting within a corrupted/damaged organisation.

There is also the idea: you can order other people to do it, but I'm not going to do it - I resign.

In business/corporate world, it's more like: I can't fight the idiotic director level decisions, so I'm going to quit and either

1) start another company to directly compete

2) quit, join another company to compete or

3) quit, get more experience, and then come back years later at a much higher pay / position to fire the director who was braindead in the first place.

3) in particular plays out way more often than you'd think in silicon valley/tech industry, where by quitting and changing jobs, you can easily get a bunch of promotions and experience outside, so you can come back in to the company at a much higher level.

Think Intel and Pat Gelsinger. As an engineer, Pat couldn't get anywhere so left in 2009 to go lead VMWare. Then he returned to Intel as CEO in 2021. He still didn't get anywhere and got fired, but at least it was for executing his vision. If he stayed at Intel, he would have just been a peon engineer for the rest of his life. At least by quitting he got the CEO job later.

Same story re the current Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan, by leaving the board, he was signally his unhappiness with the conditions, and by rejoining as CEO, he gets to make the decisions.

Resisting and fighting from within is usually your weakest play in organisational change.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#35

Post by tonetegeatinst »

bananapub wrote: post #15

Pretty distressing at how there’s basically zero pushback from the American elites at the destruction of all strategic American advantages and only ineffective pushback from the public. There will be entire genres of books written about how America just said “eh” to being gutted by a bunch of rich psychopaths.

Let's be clear, most Americans like paycheck to paycheck and can't afford losing a job or being arrested for saying antigoverment stuff

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#36

Post by sathackr »

patrickdavey wrote: post #8
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

Mental health perhaps? If the administration is making the organisations job impossible it could be an incredibly awful time to stay. I don't believe I owe anyone my sanity.

yea that seems to be a common theme with people. Nothing is bigger than them or more important than their own personal mental health.

I can't take it myself so I'm just going to roll over and not stand for any principle or fight for any cause because that's just too much for me to handle.

And besides you're just one person so what difference is it going to make anyways.

Same thing why people don't vote. It's not like their one vote will make a difference.

Multiply that times 10 million people and you get what we have.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#37

Post by 1970-01-01 »

beeforpork wrote: post #25
1970-01-01 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's resign or follow my orders. There's not much wiggle room in-between, and the lawsuits will probably cost you everything anyway.

OK, but isn't getting fired better than resigning? Why resign?

I can't speak for the NSF director, but the silver lining in a resignation is you leave on your own terms. Being fired is not "better" for everyone.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#38

Post by staunton »

stouset wrote: post #27
dullcrisp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always hope your old stockpile of weapons works while bullying smaller countries with it.

Hmm… where have I seen this strategy play out in recent memory?

Seems to be going reasonably well, isn't it?

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#39

Post by skeeter2020 »

empath75 wrote: post #17
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

You will only be able to remain on the job by compromising and compromising and compromising until there are none of your principles left. You might as well leave immediately and fight from outside.

yeah the "use my power to effect positive change" (or "bring them down from the inside") ideal is just a way to convince yourself that complicity is in service to a higher good. Funny enough that's the same argument the other side uses...

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#40

Post by sathackr »

voidfunc wrote: post #6
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

Fighting a meat grinder or a lawnmower is usually a bad strategy especially with an openly corrupt and abusive government with no checks on any of its power. People have families and livelihoods to protect, nobody in these positions signed up for this shit.

Protecting your family is why you should fight.
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