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On loyalty to your employer (2018)

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Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#31

Post by maccard »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #15
comradesmith wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have rent and calorie upkeep costs

I saw an interview with Cesar Milan a few years back where he talked about how he survived after first coming to the US. He said something to the effect of (paraphrasing) > "America is amazing, you could get two hotdogs for $1 at 7-11. That's all I needed to survive." When we visited Tokyo last year, we ended up eating a lot of 7-11 onigiri for breakfast as there weren't many places open when we were up and heading o…

> That's all I needed to survive.

That sounds like a pretty grim way to live. As a tech worker, I’d rather “live” than survive. Each to their own.

> It's about what you value and then how you exchange your time on Earth.

I think you should take a look at this thread with this comment in mind - not everyone else values the same things as you and that’s ok.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#32

Post by Propelloni »

closewith wrote: post #3
turtleyacht wrote: post #2

You can be as quickly dismissed as the guy reads off a piece of paper (for liability purposes), swivels the camera round to HR rep, and your access is cut off right after the call. You have pretty much a minute or two (if that) to bye a sentence to a couple chats, and it's over. Done. Oh, and swing by to return equipment. Thanks. Not that it's worse by any previous measure. Just the process folks will go through: blo…

For context, the OP is in the EU and UK, where none of the above is true. That said, he's a recruiter and there's nothing of value to be found in the blog post.

> For context, the OP is in the EU and UK, where none of the above is true.

In the EU many protections -- depending on the member state -- only apply under certain conditions. For example, employees in companies with less than 10.25 FTE do not enjoy any termination protection beyond very short notice periods (between 1 and 7 month) in Germany.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#33

Post by CharlieDigital »

maccard wrote: post #26
CharlieDigital wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I can't wait until I'm 50 and I can finally start doing all those things". I had an uncle pass last year and he was only 30 years older than me. He had already retired and a multi-millionaire in assets. Yet my aunt refused to retire because of a high paying job with little actual work. She kept working. When he passed, the family asked me to put together a montage video and shared their photos with me spanning his…

Travelling isn’t the be all and end all of things either remember. That might be something that you prioritise but isn’t as important to other people. They might value time with family and friends, and that’s ok too. A bit like with food, “variety is the spice of life”

    > I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends.
That was one of my first lines in my OP. My point is that exchanging your life time for money isn't the end all.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#35

Post by CharlieDigital »

paulcole wrote: post #25
CharlieDigital wrote: post #4

> “When I’m on my deathbed, I won’t look back at my life and wish I had worked harder. I’ll look back and wish I spent more time with the people I loved.” I saw a Reddit thread the other day on r/startups or r/entrepreneur where the OP was talking about how they'll be working until the day he or she dies. I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its m…

Maybe the person just doesn’t care about swimming with whales or having friends? Does everybody really think the dense Amazon jungle is neat? You’re projecting what you think makes life worth living onto someone else. Can you really not imagine that for another person working is what they love as much as you seem to love climbing snowy mountains? > Life is too short I agree with this. It’s too short to think about ho…

You're missing the forest for the trees.

You have one lifetime on this Earth and it is a big place with many experiences and sights. Do not regret in the end that you exchanged too much of that one lifetime for money rather than enriching it with many experiences be it with family, friends, or even by oneself.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#36

Post by mattlondon »

closewith wrote: post #3
turtleyacht wrote: post #2

You can be as quickly dismissed as the guy reads off a piece of paper (for liability purposes), swivels the camera round to HR rep, and your access is cut off right after the call. You have pretty much a minute or two (if that) to bye a sentence to a couple chats, and it's over. Done. Oh, and swing by to return equipment. Thanks. Not that it's worse by any previous measure. Just the process folks will go through: blo…

For context, the OP is in the EU and UK, where none of the above is true. That said, he's a recruiter and there's nothing of value to be found in the blog post.

Well they can't fire you totally on the spot in the UK, but I believe they can put you on immediate "gardening leave" where you lose all access to systems and buildings etc. You'll still get paid and are still technically employed, but you'll not be working on anything and can't go to the office.

I think there is some expectation for gardening leave to be available for the odd call or meeting for doing handovers etc, but realistically I don't think anyone would expect a disgruntled suddenly-made-redundant employee to really do that with any gusto or enthusiasm.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#37

Post by mattlondon »

gedy wrote: post #16
turtleyacht wrote: post #2

You can be as quickly dismissed as the guy reads off a piece of paper (for liability purposes), swivels the camera round to HR rep, and your access is cut off right after the call. You have pretty much a minute or two (if that) to bye a sentence to a couple chats, and it's over. Done. Oh, and swing by to return equipment. Thanks. Not that it's worse by any previous measure. Just the process folks will go through: blo…

> You have pretty much a minute or two (if that) to bye a sentence to a couple chats, and it's over. Done. When remote in this situation, I've shut off wifi and hard powered down right after meeting before they try and remote wipe. I enjoyed making them squirm while I take a few weeks to mail back equipment, while receiving increasingly urgent emails. Pointless I know, but was fun.

The pros remote wipe overnight while you are sleeping, or at the very least during the meeting with HR and your VP. Waiting to terminate access until after the bad news is delivered is just asking for trouble!

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#38

Post by closewith »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #22
arjonagelhout wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a person who can’t see themselves stop working, I think an important factor is how one derives meaning from their life. For some it might be living amazing experiences, and for others it can be in helping others (which could qualify as work). The healthiest seems to be a combination of the two, with a different ratio depending on the person. Here in the Netherlands it’s common to see retired people do vol…

"Work" here I would define as exchanging time for money. Volunteering is not work. For me personally, I make a distinction between "working" and "creating". I will always want to create (a very broad term), but I will not always want to work. In fact, I don't want to work now; I only want to create. The best is when I can exchange my creation for money -- then it is no longer work.

No, work is effort expended to achieve a result. Whether it's paid or not is irrelevant, and many people work harder for free than they ever do in employment, because the incentives are right.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#39

Post by oofManBang »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #22
arjonagelhout wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a person who can’t see themselves stop working, I think an important factor is how one derives meaning from their life. For some it might be living amazing experiences, and for others it can be in helping others (which could qualify as work). The healthiest seems to be a combination of the two, with a different ratio depending on the person. Here in the Netherlands it’s common to see retired people do vol…

"Work" here I would define as exchanging time for money. Volunteering is not work. For me personally, I make a distinction between "working" and "creating". I will always want to create (a very broad term), but I will not always want to work. In fact, I don't want to work now; I only want to create. The best is when I can exchange my creation for money -- then it is no longer work.

You might enjoy a fella named marx. Labor is labor, my friend. It should be mostly devoted to things that enrich the lives of us and those around us. It is normal to want to work. It is the alienating nature of selling our labor for a pittance that ruins our lives.

Re: On loyalty to your employer (2018)

#40

Post by pydry »

PeterStuer wrote: post #5

Systemically, there is a bias to find/retain employees that overcommit, and a bias for employers that will undercommit to the "relationship". Rationally you can agree it is a purely transactional state. Working hours for compensation. Emotionally in tech many love the work itself, or the nerdy glamour of the industry, or the inherent intelectual bravadory and oneupmanship, and so are ripe for exploitation. HR will dr…

I haven't seen much of a bias towards seeking out a predisposition to loyalty in employees except among authoritarian small business owner types who invariably underpay.

I don't think offering perks is necessarily supposed to engender loyalty. It's still a transactional relationship ("ok, google might pay less than the startup but I do get free lunches at google...").

In most companies I have more often seen not even a shred of expectation of loyalty. It's pretty normal to see critical employees quit at an inconvenient time on a critical project and the only person who expresses any bad feelings is the employee in question feeling a bit guilty.

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