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The problem with "vibe coding"

dylanbeattie.net

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Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#31

Post by caspper69 »

alganet wrote: post #14

Sometimes I want to cook a home meal. If I wanted to open a large world class fast food chain, I wouldn't be cooking home meals then. That would be silly. Copilot can help me cook the equivalent of a McDonalds special in terms of software. It's good, I think McDonalds is delicious. But it cannot help me cook a home meal software. It will insist that my home made fries must go in a little red box, and my fish sandwich…

I am in the middle of my third AI assisted project. I disagree ~90%.

If you prompt an LLM like an architect and feed it code rather than expecting it to write your code, both ChatGPT 4o and Claude 3.7 Sonnet do a great job. Do they mess up? Regularly. But the key is to guide the LLM and not let the LLM guide you, otherwise you'll end up in purgatory.

It takes some time to get used to what types of prompts work. Remember, LLMs are just tools; used in a naive way, they can be a drain, but used effectively they can be great. The typing speed alone is something I could never match.

But just like anything, you have to know what you're doing. Don't go slapping together a bunch of source files that they spit out. Be specific, be firm, tell it what to review first, what's important and what is not. Mention specific algorithms. Detail exactly how you want something to fit together, or describe shortcomings or pitfalls. I'll be damned if they don't get it most of the time.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#32

Post by zachthewf »

The argument is that vibe coding is great for little personal programs but bad for full-blown products.

I don't think you can ship a fully baked product made exclusively with AI coding yet. But it's *really* useful for investigative product development - e.g. when you have a few different ideas for how something might work but aren't quite sure what's best. I used to regret that I never mastered Figma or other mockup tools - now I never will have to.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#33

Post by nonethewiser »

mvdtnz wrote: post #16
charcircuit wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pure definition is to have AI do everything for you without caring about what the actual code is.

Yeah this is how I interpret it. Type text into the chatbot, copy and paste the outputted code. If it fails to compile, paste the error message and get the resulting code. Similar if it fails at runtime. Supply the LLM with additional code files where necessary but don't really look at the code, just copy and paste in, copy and paste out.

How else are people using LLMs to code? Other than this?

Its so fast to do these things. Seems dumb not to use an LLM to interpret an error message if you don’t immediately know the problem. And if it doesn’t work you can alway abort and do it yourself. The whole code gen and debugging process might take 45 seconds.

Sure its dumb if you’re writing some short simple function. And you need to be in the loop and understand all the changes you are making in a professional setting. But that just sounds like the basic workflow of coding with an LLM.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#34

Post by doug_durham »

alganet wrote: post #14

Sometimes I want to cook a home meal. If I wanted to open a large world class fast food chain, I wouldn't be cooking home meals then. That would be silly. Copilot can help me cook the equivalent of a McDonalds special in terms of software. It's good, I think McDonalds is delicious. But it cannot help me cook a home meal software. It will insist that my home made fries must go in a little red box, and my fish sandwich…

Pretty weak analogy. Copilot can show you how to make either McDonalds or a Michelin starred restaurant meal. It is endlessly variable.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#36

Post by silisili »

barotalomey wrote: post #20
alganet wrote: post #14

Sometimes I want to cook a home meal. If I wanted to open a large world class fast food chain, I wouldn't be cooking home meals then. That would be silly. Copilot can help me cook the equivalent of a McDonalds special in terms of software. It's good, I think McDonalds is delicious. But it cannot help me cook a home meal software. It will insist that my home made fries must go in a little red box, and my fish sandwich…

[flagged]

They've been around forever and I believe number 2 or 3 in number of stores open in the US. You don't get that way without some people liking your product.

It's fine that some people don't like it, but is ridiculous to think your tastes apply to everyone.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#37

Post by asadotzler »

nonethewiser wrote: post #30
charcircuit wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pure definition is to have AI do everything for you without caring about what the actual code is.

That’s ambiguous. Whats the input? Copilot anticipating based off what you’re typing? An explicit prompt about what you want?

Yeah, you tell it what you want and it gives you something, then you tell it how that's not good enough and it gives you another thing, and you repeat until you have something that works for you (but, as the author notes, is hardly a real product that could be maintained and shipped to real customers.)

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#38

Post by asadotzler »

The real takeaway here is that programs you whip up for your own use, by any means, are not the same things as maintainable products you can deliver to customers.

Vibe coding, or VB tricks and hacks 25 years ago, or whatever, sure, do it if that works for you, but that's not a product you can maintain for a customer base. It's a program, not a product.

Re: The problem with "vibe coding"

#39

Post by ehutch79 »

doug_durham wrote: post #34
alganet wrote: post #14

Sometimes I want to cook a home meal. If I wanted to open a large world class fast food chain, I wouldn't be cooking home meals then. That would be silly. Copilot can help me cook the equivalent of a McDonalds special in terms of software. It's good, I think McDonalds is delicious. But it cannot help me cook a home meal software. It will insist that my home made fries must go in a little red box, and my fish sandwich…

Pretty weak analogy. Copilot can show you how to make either McDonalds or a Michelin starred restaurant meal. It is endlessly variable.

I can do neither.

McDonald’s is a system for delivering food fast and cheap at scale. It breaks down when making one burger.

If you’re not a trained chef, you will not pump out Michelin star meals, even using the same recipe.

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