The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#31

Post by watwut » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 7:22 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #28

krapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we still on the "basket of deplorables" thing? You know that comment wasn't about the working class as a whole, it was about the bigots and neo-nazis that were taking over the Trumpist movement. And she was absolutely correct about it. Instead of uniting over a common manufactured trauma response because the scary lady said a mean thing the right should have cleaned its own house. >Instead, listen to them. Find o…

If "basket of deplorables" was a one-off, I might agree with you. But "clinging to guns and religion". There was another such comment this cycle, too, though I don't remember it. There has been a thread of contempt for the working class from Obama through Harris, and it keeps coming out of peoples' mouths. If you claim to represent the working class, and your positions don't resonate with the working class, then you…

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Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#32

Post by krapp » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 7:30 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #28

krapp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we still on the "basket of deplorables" thing? You know that comment wasn't about the working class as a whole, it was about the bigots and neo-nazis that were taking over the Trumpist movement. And she was absolutely correct about it. Instead of uniting over a common manufactured trauma response because the scary lady said a mean thing the right should have cleaned its own house. >Instead, listen to them. Find o…

If "basket of deplorables" was a one-off, I might agree with you. But "clinging to guns and religion". There was another such comment this cycle, too, though I don't remember it. There has been a thread of contempt for the working class from Obama through Harris, and it keeps coming out of peoples' mouths. If you claim to represent the working class, and your positions don't resonate with the working class, then you…

>There has been a thread of contempt for the working class from Obama through Harris, and it keeps coming out of peoples' mouths.

Obama, Biden, Harris, and even Hillary Clinton have stronger pro-labor and working class roots than Donald Trump, who has not only never worked an honest day in his life but has a history of abusing and failing to respect the working people he employs.

Tell me any Democrat doesn't represent working class principles when you can tell me anything about their actual platform. All I ever hear from Trumpists is memes and conspiracy theories, and far worse contempt for progressives, gays, trans people, women and immigrants than "guns and religion." That party declared empathy a sin and made "fuck your feelings" their motto, but it's the Democrats who are the assholes?

And you know, given Jan. 6th, the "guns and religion" thing doesn't even seem that unfair.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#33

Post by jampekka » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 8:51 PM UTC

techpineapple wrote: post #15

jampekka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is unpopular. He's never gotten majority approval in a Gallup poll for example. https://news.gallup.com/interactives/507569/presidential-job...

He is, and I get this, but I think there's something wrong with the data, something like, MAGA is popular, and even though he's an imperfect steward of MAGA, he's the only valid steward of MAGA. Or, he's unpopular, but he's unpopular with people who will always vote Republican, and popular with people who will only vote Trump, pushing Republican's over the top. But how do you explain Trump being unpopular, and like s…

MAGA is not popular. Only about 50% of republicans are MAGA and about 30% of the population are republicans. Being generous, MAGA has something like 20% support.

Trump's win was hardly a destruction. It was quite slim.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#34

Post by jampekka » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 8:55 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #18

jampekka wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance The Democrats have a radical pro-gun stance compared to about any other country in the world.

Be that as it may, when it comes to winning elections in the United States, comparisons to the Rest of the World aren't carrying much weight.

Majority of Americans support stricter gun laws (radical anti-gun stance?). The gun nuts are a loud minority, and dems are unlikely to win elections where they have sway anyway.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#35

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 8:56 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #32

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "basket of deplorables" was a one-off, I might agree with you. But "clinging to guns and religion". There was another such comment this cycle, too, though I don't remember it. There has been a thread of contempt for the working class from Obama through Harris, and it keeps coming out of peoples' mouths. If you claim to represent the working class, and your positions don't resonate with the working class, then you…

>There has been a thread of contempt for the working class from Obama through Harris, and it keeps coming out of peoples' mouths. Obama, Biden, Harris, and even Hillary Clinton have stronger pro-labor and working class roots than Donald Trump, who has not only never worked an honest day in his life but has a history of abusing and failing to respect the working people he employs. Tell me any Democrat doesn't represen…

[deleted]

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#36

Post by techpineapple » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

jampekka wrote: post #33

techpineapple wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is, and I get this, but I think there's something wrong with the data, something like, MAGA is popular, and even though he's an imperfect steward of MAGA, he's the only valid steward of MAGA. Or, he's unpopular, but he's unpopular with people who will always vote Republican, and popular with people who will only vote Trump, pushing Republican's over the top. But how do you explain Trump being unpopular, and like s…

MAGA is not popular. Only about 50% of republicans are MAGA and about 30% of the population are republicans. Being generous, MAGA has something like 20% support. Trump's win was hardly a destruction. It was quite slim.

Donald Trump beat Nikki Haley 2268 delegates to 97 delegates. 17,015,756 to 4,381,799 popular votes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Republican_Party_presiden....

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#37

Post by aaron695 » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 6:12 AM UTC

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #14

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 3. Stop focusing so much on identity politics. Yes, sure, continue to stand for equality and inclusiveness. But don't make gender politics, trans-politics, race-politics, etc. your lynchpin issues. Democrats didn't run on identity politics. Republicans ran on claiming that Democrats run on identity politics. Democrats aren't the ones spending millions of dollars on campaign ads about trans people or people of color…

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Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#38

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 10:53 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #30

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero should be to make copious promises about fixing the economy, even if it's a stretch, to blue collar workers and the rest of the working classes and pinning the current economic woes on the other party, even if it's a stretch, as much as they can. Democrats talk a big game about being on the side of the working classes but that hasn't been true for 20+ years and voters know it. The polls show they know it too.

I mean, republicans are even worst for the working class. So, I would argue that what is show is that your actual record on economy does not matter, only big claims do.

At least they talk about stuff that the post-industrial working class care about. Like, Trump may not succeed in bringing back manufacturing, but the Democrats never even talked about it (even though Biden did a bunch of good stuff there).

And fundamentally, the coastal states don't have enough votes for the Democrats to win a majority, so they need to start figuring out how to win in the rest of the country.

Personally, I'd have removed the filibuster in the Senate to fix gerrymandering, as that makes the elections much fairer and takes away the ability of state legislatures to make ridiculous boundaries that are always gonna vote for one party. Hilariously enough, it was the old school Republicans who started this, which has lead to them being replaced by MAGA loyalists.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#39

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 10:54 AM UTC

legitster wrote: post #21

mindcrime wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun. You can't expect people's mindsets to change overnight though. Organizations develop a reputation of years, decades, or longer. It might take just as long to change that reputation. It takes consistenc…

This is true. But then again Trump was a staunch democrat who lived in a penthouse his whole life. Yet is able to just flip a switch on any topic and a whole voter base eats it up. So it's really hard to know what grounds to criticize them on when the opposition has just pure chaos magic on their side.

Trump is an incredibly good politician. Fortunately for the world, he's much less good at governing.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#40

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Tue, Apr 01, 2025, 10:56 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #23

alabastervlog wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance and embrace the 2nd Amendment as being just as important as every other part of the Bill of Rights. I agree, but also they mostly do and Republican voters still come out to the voting booth because they're sure—seriously, this is a real thing—that Biden's going to take their guns, and they mean literally, ban guns and try to round them all up. > 6. Go more in the direction of the…

I don't think the average voter is in favor of more taxation. The average voter is afraid that "tax the rich" will turn into taxing me .

Well to be fair, the Democrat's contortions on the SALT deductions certainly didn't help them (but if the only people you talk to are affluent coastal liberals then I could see why you'd support such a regressive policy).