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Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

pewresearch.org

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Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#31

Post by squigz »

sepositus wrote: post #23
drowsspa wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were designed then it was a very sloppy designer. We can easily think of a myriad of ways it could have been done better. And quite mischievous to just leave all this evidence of evolution. I think that the gnostics with the idea of a malevolent creator god would fit our world better.

To play devil's advocate, are we at a state where you can confidently say the design is sloppy? I feel it's akin to looking at an incomplete puzzle and judging it prematurely.

When you look at the robustness of complex systems we design (i.e., IT systems) vs the robustness of the human body, I think it is at least fair to say it could be designed better.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#32

Post by dmd »

TylerLives wrote: post #30
kelseyfrog wrote: post #5

I left in my teens. Religion seemed, at that time and still does, appears to reinforce systems of power and conformity rather than do good. Non-believers often ask themselves, "what god would have the ability to eliminate suffering and choose not to?" We should also ask, "What religious institution and followers, having amassed the riches of the world, would choose not to eliminate suffering when they could?" The wei…

Without suffering everything would become meaningless instantly. It would be like playing a video game with cheats.

Glad to hear it. I could use more meaning in my life. Please sign over all your wealth to me, so you can suffer some more.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#33

Post by throwanem »

sepositus wrote: post #24
throwanem wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be a little kind, won't you? It's always an occasion of sorrow to see someone turn his face from the world, and certainly I'm not prepared to assume myself immune to the same pitiable fate.

I'm sure being mercilessly mocked is a contributing factor to these statistics.

Never underestimate the shamefully desperate desire of those who grew up being stuffed into lockers to find whom they may themselves stuff into other, presumably smaller and more easily closing, lockers of their own.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#35

Post by [deleted] »

sepositus wrote: post #23
drowsspa wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were designed then it was a very sloppy designer. We can easily think of a myriad of ways it could have been done better. And quite mischievous to just leave all this evidence of evolution. I think that the gnostics with the idea of a malevolent creator god would fit our world better.

To play devil's advocate, are we at a state where you can confidently say the design is sloppy? I feel it's akin to looking at an incomplete puzzle and judging it prematurely.

[deleted]

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#37

Post by sepositus »

For context, I've been a leader in various (American) Evangelical churches over the last decade.

The fundamental thing that I think many people need to understand is that many of these "changes" are merely an outward reflection of an inward problem. Meaning a large majority of these individuals were often pursuing Christianity due to some external factor. Take, for example, cultural Christianity. I've sat in rooms with people who have literally been in crisis because they don't understand why people don't stay for the potlucks anymore. The entire foundation of their faith was on the culture surrounding Christianity in America. With that now (as the article points out) fading quite rapidly, they are joining their peers in leaving (or, worse in my opinion, becoming Christian Nationalists).

Many of us have seen this coming for a long time. Heck, if you go back and read Francis Schaeffer's writings, especially his later ones, it's almost uncomfortable how accurate his predictions were.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#38

Post by sepositus »

squigz wrote: post #31
sepositus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, are we at a state where you can confidently say the design is sloppy? I feel it's akin to looking at an incomplete puzzle and judging it prematurely.

When you look at the robustness of complex systems we design (i.e., IT systems) vs the robustness of the human body, I think it is at least fair to say it could be designed better.

This seems to propose that IT systems deal with the sheer amount of variability a living organism has to contend with on a daily basis. I don't think it's a fair comparison.

At Google (as an SRE), a large portion of my work was trying to understand problems that people have never even comprehended due to the sheer scale we operated at. Reading through code, I would often scratch my head at some decisions, only to later find out it had a really good reason often associated with some high-level incident. I feel the same can be said for biology. Just because it doesn't immediately fit into our theoretical understanding doesn't mean it was designed poorly.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#39

Post by _1tem »

Note the article refuses to say it explicitly, you have to dig deeper into the footnotes, but the group that is gaining the most “switchers” (after athiesm/agnosticism) is Islam.

> The U.S. and Kenya have the highest levels of “accession,” or entrance, into Islam, with 20% of U.S. Muslims and 11% of Kenyan Muslims saying they were raised in another religion or with no religion. That said, overall, Muslims are a minority in both places: About 1% of U.S. adults and 11% of Kenyans currently identify as Muslim.

Re: Around the World, Many People Are Leaving Their Childhood Religions

#40

Post by missedthecue »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #5

I left in my teens. Religion seemed, at that time and still does, appears to reinforce systems of power and conformity rather than do good. Non-believers often ask themselves, "what god would have the ability to eliminate suffering and choose not to?" We should also ask, "What religious institution and followers, having amassed the riches of the world, would choose not to eliminate suffering when they could?" The wei…

It always seemed a logistical disconnect to me that people conclude god isn't good, therefore he doesn't exist. It's a non-sequitur.
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