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New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

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Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#31

Post by lofaszvanitt »

niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

How come you can sue others and the court doesn't check whether you have the funds if you lose? I mean if you don't have funds allocated away in case you lose, then why start the proceedings?

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#32

Post by gist »

niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

I think like so many things the idea of 'patent trolls' has taken on a meaning whereby anyone who has a patent but no operating actual company (as you are describing LLC with 5 members and a lawyer) everyone automatically thinks 'sham'.

On the surface by stories related that certainly appears to be the case.

However we don't have any data (only anecdotes) on how many patents are pursued this way that are actually valid. And 'back in the old days' it used to be that you could have an actual patent and then get shafted by some large corporation simply because they could afford lawyers and you couldn't (meaning 'mr small inventor')

What I am saying in no way means I don't think there is probably abuse (there are enough anecdotes to think 'something is wrong here') but really we need the entire picture and dataset to decide that (in all fairness).

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#33

Post by gist »

niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

> We ended up fighting it a bit because of "principles" by our founder. - in discovery there was something like 1,000 of these exact demand letters they had sent.

I am noting you have not said how this ended up. What does 'we ended up fighting it a bit because of "principles" of our founder.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#34

Post by quantified »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #13
reverendsteveii wrote: post #12

Why do we keep moving toward a system where being ahead is the most viable way to get ahead?

Power accumulates the same way rivers flow into the ocean If there is no continuous effort to tax rich people and split up political power, democracy will fall back into feudalism

"While" not "if"

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#35

Post by robocat »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #12

Why do we keep moving toward a system where being ahead is the most viable way to get ahead?

I think systems grow by themselves - more like a biological ecosystem. Even powerful politicians seem to often be reduced to dealing with the outcomes of a system without seeming to understand how that system works. The idea that people are in charge leads to conspiratorial theories: imagined incentives of people behind the scenes.

However I know I look at the world differently from most people: so it is just as likely my own views are warped.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#36

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

toasterlovin wrote: post #28
rcxdude wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that help? A patent troll doesn't really have any reputation to protect.

Would the bar association in the lawyer’s state be interested?

Other than to commend the entrepreneurial sprit of its members?

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#37

Post by ddtaylor »

gist wrote: post #33
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

> We ended up fighting it a bit because of "principles" by our founder. - in discovery there was something like 1,000 of these exact demand letters they had sent. I am noting you have not said how this ended up. What does 'we ended up fighting it a bit because of "principles" of our founder.

It means they pushed back then settled without any useful resolution. The troll didn't get a big payday, but they didn't get told to stop and it set precedent helping them shake down others.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#38

Post by ddtaylor »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #31
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

How come you can sue others and the court doesn't check whether you have the funds if you lose? I mean if you don't have funds allocated away in case you lose, then why start the proceedings?

Because solving the answer to what is the correct legal interpretation is not concerned with if that interpretation yields economic identities.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#39

Post by karaterobot »

gist wrote: post #32
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

I think like so many things the idea of 'patent trolls' has taken on a meaning whereby anyone who has a patent but no operating actual company (as you are describing LLC with 5 members and a lawyer) everyone automatically thinks 'sham'. On the surface by stories related that certainly appears to be the case. However we don't have any data (only anecdotes) on how many patents are pursued this way that are actually val…

It's not really a question of whether the patent troll has a legitimate patent or not—in the sense of having clear ownership over the IP, that is. They generally do. We consider someone a patent troll when they don't make use of the patent themselves, except to extract money from other people, typically through threats of legal action. They're exploiting the fear of being sued for a lot of money in order to get a comparatively small amount of money in exchange for agreeing to not sue. "Troll" here is in the pre-internet sense of the word, not someone making up a fake story on a message board, but more like a troll living under a bridge, demanding money from people in order to cross it.

Re: New USPTO Memo Makes Fighting Patent Trolls Even Harder

#40

Post by conartist6 »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #15
niwtsol wrote: post #14

We dealt with some patent trolls back in the 2010-2020 era, for those who have not experienced it, it is absurd. In our case, the patent "troll" was an LLC w/ ~5 members - 2 lawyers, 1 person who owned the original patent, and some spouses. The only "asset" of the LLC was the patent. I think it was around scrollbars or some CSS overflow thing - they sent us a demand/cease-desist letter saying they will sue for $1M an…

Doesn't it cost a lot in legal fee to the troll too? How are they able to finance it given that they are basically a sham company?

Because they don't expect to win the lawsuit. Their odds of winning a lawsuit aren't that good, so their goal is to badger a founder into settling. A founder would likely be killing their creative endeavor to become their own lawyer and go to court for themselves, and the trolls choose targets for whom paying a lawyer for the length of one of these trials would be prohibitively costly.

In other words, their real business model, the reason that they can be considered a "safe investment" is that they operate as an extortion racket at scale with the justice system itself as their (free) muscle.

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