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Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

blog.ecosia.org

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Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#31

Post by stavros »

dwedge wrote: post #26
stavros wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like to name this as a fallacy - begging the question. The product will be better chasing revenue from you because it will be worse chasing revenue from someone else. I said the product will be better for me . I generally believe that things are better for me when they're trying to entice me versus when they're trying to entice someone who isn't me, but we can debate that, if you want.

I agree with you that it's usually true, I just don't agree that it has to be true. When a company is well funded and focusing on userbase, that's great. When they need more money, it might not be. I know they are totally different types of companies, but look at social networks - when they are expanding they are good for everyone, once they decide it's time to earn more money from their exist users (focusing on the…

The problem with social networks is that they decide to earn more money from advertisers by selling the users. I don't know how a company can say "I'll only ever want a specific kind of customer", but at least saying "I'll never want to sell" is a step in that direction.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#32

Post by stavros »

iregina wrote: post #27
stavros wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP, but I pay for Fastmail because it's just so much better than Gmail, and I pay for Kagi sometimes because it's generally better than Google.

How is Fastmaol? Is it inconvenient to not use Gmail?

No, the only difference I noticed was that it was faster. I still use Maps and have my Google account, but I don't use Gmail (or Google calendar). I made the transition years ago and it was really painless for me.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#33

Post by modo_mario »

jasoncartwright wrote: post #15

Ecosia have been going a while, and I don't want to be that guy 'just asking questions', but... Is there some sort of independent verification of the trees being planted and their impact? I wonder if there is a study into the effect of their interesting green reinvestment setup vs a traditional for-profit businesses (Google is the obvious example) and their environmental impacts.

Yeah, I've got similar worries since there has been plenty of greenwashing that has happened with planting trees. I'd be sad but also not surprised if some of those trees being planted are sitka spruce wood plantations or so.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#34

Post by slevis »

notachatbot123 wrote: post #18

[flagged]

... because AI Chats are consuming more energy than search? This is a flawed argument. Internet search also started out using more energy than looking up things in your local library, so maybe we should go back to that?

There is no way around increased AI usage. Would be great if Ecosia plays a key part in its adaption to balance it with environmental goals.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#35

Post by slevis »

jasoncartwright wrote: post #15

Ecosia have been going a while, and I don't want to be that guy 'just asking questions', but... Is there some sort of independent verification of the trees being planted and their impact? I wonder if there is a study into the effect of their interesting green reinvestment setup vs a traditional for-profit businesses (Google is the obvious example) and their environmental impacts.

This is my main problem with Ecosia as well. I don't believe planting trees is really a good option to help the climate and I have zero trust in tracking progress of those projects in a lot of countries. I would much rather them e.g. investing in solar or sponsoring open source projects.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#36

Post by dwighttk »

dwedge wrote: post #11
dmbche wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay for search and email? What services do you use? May I ask you why, if you're wanting to go into it?

I wish more people would self-host email. Email getting centralised to a handful of providers is no good for anyone.

I stopped self hosting when my host got blacklisted and I lost about a year of emails with my grandmother… I just thought she was reading them but not having the energy to respond but when I visited at Christmas I saw that all my emails were in her spam box.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#37

Post by robin_reala »

dmbche wrote: post #4
aswerty wrote: post #3

I really like the idea of Ecosia and Steward Owned companies, but as somebody who wants out of the Ad game completely, uses uBlock Origin religiously and pays for services like email and search. I haven't actually used Ecosia, but am interested in others experiences with it. But I imagine in the HN crowd a lot of other people fit the same profile as myself.

You pay for search and email? What services do you use? May I ask you why, if you're wanting to go into it?

Kagi and Soverin for me. I bailed from GMail after the AMP-in-mail proposal,[1] and EU hosting was a bonus; ended up blogging about my choice back in 2018.[2] If there was a good EU equivalent to Kagi I’d be definitely interested.

[1] https://blog.google/products/g-suite/bringing-power-amp-gmai...

[2] https://www.robinwhittleton.com/2018/02/18/dropping-g-suite/

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#39

Post by aswerty »

dmbche wrote: post #4
aswerty wrote: post #3

I really like the idea of Ecosia and Steward Owned companies, but as somebody who wants out of the Ad game completely, uses uBlock Origin religiously and pays for services like email and search. I haven't actually used Ecosia, but am interested in others experiences with it. But I imagine in the HN crowd a lot of other people fit the same profile as myself.

You pay for search and email? What services do you use? May I ask you why, if you're wanting to go into it?

Fastmail and Kagi. And I'm very happy with both.

Re: Trees not profits: we're giving up our right to ever sell Ecosia (2018)

#40

Post by motbus3 »

dwedge wrote: post #8

I'm sure Ecosia are a good company, but headlines like this always make me a little suspicious. Non profits make a lot of money for their founders without it ever being "profit". Ecosia are reporting just over 600K euros a month in wages, I'd love to see the split and what % of that goes to the CEO. You don't need to sell a business if you have plenty of income from it every month - especially if now that can't be ta…

I would love to see it too. Also relations with for profit companies as well.

But how much a CEO of a company like this should make? It seems quite lot of work and one needs to make a living. But how much would be fair in your opinion?

I honestly have no idea

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