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The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#31

Post by robertlagrant »

keepamovin wrote: post #15
lolinder wrote: post #11

To try to stem the tide of "Trump will just make this go away because ${corruption}", I want to remind everyone of a few things: * This is not a Biden-admin lawsuit. It was launched by the first Trump admin. * Of the 14 co-plaintiffs, only 1 (CA) is a state that didn't vote for Trump in 2024. The Colorado Plaintiff States include another 16 red states, for a total of 29 red states represented. As much as it's trendy…

At the risk of smoting from the Google Gods ( I should be careful, I make a product that depends on their browser ), I think the best thing that should happen to Chrome, if it's going to be sold off - is it becomes a "public utility" and basically is a model for actually publicly stewarded open development. Like maybe what the Mozilla Foundation should have been, like what many actual C-based open source OS projects…

> I'm okay with Windows being owned by Microsoft which is (was) basically the same thing in a way

Windows is much worse by most metrics. I can't fork Windowsium and build (and sell) my own fully-compatible, 99.999999% R&D paid for by Microsoft, OS.

> This is all probably too vague and unspecified for you lot...but it is just an idea

It is a bit vague :) In that: who pays for it? Who decides what features are in or out? Public utilities are generally what we make things when they're feature complete and the only challenge is rolling it out as cheaply as possible. But it feels like web browsers have a way to go yet. There's nothing stopping the US government (or any government) from bulding their own browser off Chromium right now. Nothing needs selling or splitting.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#33

Post by jherdman »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #19
re-thc wrote: post #12

Can Google just "donate" Chrome to a foundation like a lot of big companies do to deal with this? Maybe we'll soon have Apache Chrome!

Apache is where projects go to slowly die.

Is this really true? Something that can be supported by clear evidence? I’ve seen this trotted out many times, but it seems like there are interesting Apache projects:

https://airflow.apache.org/

https://iceberg.apache.org/

https://kafka.apache.org/

https://superset.apache.org/

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#34

Post by ksec »

I disliked Google ever since they started their "Do No Evil" PR campaign. For as long as I remember I was the extreme rare few on internet against them.

And I also disliked Chrome. Especially the direction of the web they are using Chrome to push forward.

And I also disliked Electron.

But I am against DOJ forcing Google to sell off Chrome. Especially when most of Chrome is open sourced. I think this is just plain wrong. Why dont we force Apple to open source macOS? Microsoft to Open Source Windows? Or Selling off Office. SpaceX to sell its Engine?

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#35

Post by fc417fc802 »

ksec wrote: post #34

I disliked Google ever since they started their "Do No Evil" PR campaign. For as long as I remember I was the extreme rare few on internet against them. And I also disliked Chrome. Especially the direction of the web they are using Chrome to push forward. And I also disliked Electron. But I am against DOJ forcing Google to sell off Chrome. Especially when most of Chrome is open sourced. I think this is just plain wro…

None of those exhibit the same sort of outsized influence that chrome does on global web standards. The app store duopoly might come close but still not to the same extent.

Being open source has nothing to do with it. Of course selling it off won't necessarily accomplish the desired result since at the end of the day it isn't the legal ownership per se that results in the influence.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#36

Post by techpineapple »

lolinder wrote: post #11

To try to stem the tide of "Trump will just make this go away because ${corruption}", I want to remind everyone of a few things: * This is not a Biden-admin lawsuit. It was launched by the first Trump admin. * Of the 14 co-plaintiffs, only 1 (CA) is a state that didn't vote for Trump in 2024. The Colorado Plaintiff States include another 16 red states, for a total of 29 red states represented. As much as it's trendy…

“ As much as it's trendy in 2025 to talk about this admin as though it's entirely unprincipled, it's actually been doing exactly what it said it would do to satisfy its base.”

Most Arguments in both directions are basically unprovable and amount to propaganda at this point. Degrees matter. Saying “people voted for this”, which both sides say with different directionality, is mostly away to convince people to either support or fight against the administration. Everyone voted for their interpretation of thing X, but will oppose it if implementation Y causes impact Z which they perceive as bad.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#37

Post by fc417fc802 »

jherdman wrote: post #33
drivingmenuts wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apache is where projects go to slowly die.

Is this really true? Something that can be supported by clear evidence? I’ve seen this trotted out many times, but it seems like there are interesting Apache projects: https://airflow.apache.org/ https://iceberg.apache.org/ https://kafka.apache.org/ https://superset.apache.org/

It's superficially true of any large stewardship organization. After N years some significant percent of projects will be on their way out. These will continue accumulating year over year and they potentially won't be disposed of for decades (and for good reason).

Meanwhile only a vanishingly small fraction of projects remains at the center of public attention for an extended period of time. People develop a skewed perspective because we interact with many of the most popular projects on a daily basis.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#38

Post by fauigerzigerk »

keepamovin wrote: post #15
lolinder wrote: post #11

To try to stem the tide of "Trump will just make this go away because ${corruption}", I want to remind everyone of a few things: * This is not a Biden-admin lawsuit. It was launched by the first Trump admin. * Of the 14 co-plaintiffs, only 1 (CA) is a state that didn't vote for Trump in 2024. The Colorado Plaintiff States include another 16 red states, for a total of 29 red states represented. As much as it's trendy…

At the risk of smoting from the Google Gods ( I should be careful, I make a product that depends on their browser ), I think the best thing that should happen to Chrome, if it's going to be sold off - is it becomes a "public utility" and basically is a model for actually publicly stewarded open development. Like maybe what the Mozilla Foundation should have been, like what many actual C-based open source OS projects…

>This is all probably too vague and unspecified for you lot...but it is just an idea.

Forgive me for being blunt, but what idea? If the question is who is supposed to fund Chromium and Firefox going forward then you haven't actually offered any ideas.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#39

Post by fc417fc802 »

newsclues wrote: post #7

I don't care that Google, Apple or Microsoft have their own browser. Especially not when there are other third party browsers. Wouldn't say no to a government funded one that was secure and tested with government services. There are some issues with the big tech giants that is likely harmful to consumers and the industry, and I'd welcome anti-trust investigations into all of them, but I feel like minor issues like br…

> secure and tested with government services.

The same government services that require things like recaptcha to work? The situation in the US is far worse than just "I need to use a BigTech browser to access government services".

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#40

Post by cosmic_cheese »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #35
ksec wrote: post #34

I disliked Google ever since they started their "Do No Evil" PR campaign. For as long as I remember I was the extreme rare few on internet against them. And I also disliked Chrome. Especially the direction of the web they are using Chrome to push forward. And I also disliked Electron. But I am against DOJ forcing Google to sell off Chrome. Especially when most of Chrome is open sourced. I think this is just plain wro…

None of those exhibit the same sort of outsized influence that chrome does on global web standards. The app store duopoly might come close but still not to the same extent. Being open source has nothing to do with it. Of course selling it off won't necessarily accomplish the desired result since at the end of the day it isn't the legal ownership per se that results in the influence.

Outsize influence combined with conflict of interest. The other branches of Google have too much to gain from being able to steer the direction of the web with Chrome, and the company as a whole benefits from writing its web apps in a way that makes them work better under Chrome, making for self-reinforcing hegemony. It’s just as bad as MS+IE, maybe worse since Chromium/Blink being open source has given them plausible deniability that MS didn’t have.
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