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Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

alexp.pl

31–40 of 103 posts

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#31

>> Seems like programmers are terrified Idk why terrified, vibe coding is nice but everyone who developed something bigger than a toy knows that code is 5% of the task and never was a bottleneck. Its not like faang employees write code all day long, or even half day. Ah and you need to make sure it doesn’t nuke your db or send weird email to your users because someone prompt-engineered it badly.

Exactly.

I feel people/hypers keep rumbling about many things and way too often seem they have no real life experience.

The biggest problem I’ve seen over 20 years long career is people and the games they play (on different levels of leadership and management within an org) and their inability to agree to and then verbalise what on Earth they want. No matter is it a greenfield or some digital transformation project, they a plagued by fear and self-interest (of various kind).

And even if/when they identify a problem (e.g. games players) it becomes a risky cutting the cord since the one needs to identify who to rely on to clean the mess and their confidence caves in (often) while resolving to “let’s layoff x number of ‘leaf’ employees” is safe scared-with-no-vision leader move and it looks good on the stock market.

Software engineers (generally) kept delivering despite all that for years across the board (generally). And, generally, kept their values and principles and that bothers this managerial class a lot it seems and they (in a way) can’t wait to stop paying “those nerds” big salaries and that’s why those often low values and unprincipled people can’t wait to see our backs and are getting hyped about this “AI will replace SD/SE” mantra.

All this above is obviously generally speaking but yeah we people tend way to often to misplace our focus and solve lesser priority problems, and this “ai replacing engineers” is one of them to a good degree.

And for the majority of software developers there is nothing to worry about. The sheer keep-knowledge-up-to-date demand this industry put on us primed us to be by far the most able professional group to jump into a career change in no time.

Which other group in huge numbers can just sit down and learn and work for 10 hours a day 7 days a week and not complain or get emotionally disturbed (too much) and get the thing but us.

So in the worst case scenario we will be fine, others should be scared if we in numbers pick their industry to move into.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#32
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data point of one: ChatGPT 3.5, even the free product, is so much better at answering technical questions than Google. Some questions I had successfully answered recently: > "I would like to animate changing a snippet of code. I'll probably be using Remotion. Is there a JavaScript library that can animate changing one block of text into another?" > "In Golang, how can I unit test a http mux? How can I test the routes…

ChatGPT is better on average for sure than Google for arriving at a correct answer, but they fail in different ways. When Google fails, it's usually in the form of, "I cannot find an answer. Better ask someone smart for help." but when ChatGPT fails, it's often giving an incorrect answer. Depending on your fault tolerance and timeline, one will be better than the other. If you have low tolerance for faults, ChatGPT i…

I would also use the axis of how easy it is to tell if it’s wrong. If you ask an LLM for code and you quickly get a syntax error or the wrong result, it’s not going to waste much time or, usually, make you look bad. If you ask it to do some analysis on a topic where you don’t have enough knowledge to tell if it’s right, however, that’s a lot riskier because you get the negative reputation.

This is the big problem with Google’s AI results: before, the wrong answer was from seoscum.com and people would learn to ignore them. Now the wrong answer is given Google’s corporate reputation and also there’s no way to conditionally distrust it so you learn not to trust them for anything.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#33
It's interesting to see a lot of senior folks are against this arguing that if you're working on a larger software project this falls apart. Two things can be argued against this:

1. Context sizes are going to grow. Gemini with 2M tokens is already doing amazing feats

2. We all agree that we should break bigger problems into smaller ones. So if you can isolate the problem into something that fits in a LLM context, no matter how large the larger software system is, you can make a lot of quick progress by leveraging LLMs for that isolated piece of software.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#34

I wish software engineers focus less on being cool and more on getting done with work and living a life away from a screen

Well, in 3rd World and developing countries where developers work for salaries that locally put them into a rich class yes they likely do play cool.

In developed counties developers are quite down to Earth decent earners and generally are not playing “too cool for school” games.

It’s slightly misinformed comment or, better to say, context dependant to be facts based.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#35
Honestly, the fact that this is even a concept assessed with any seriousness shows me how much bullshit the label "engineering" is when applied to software.

You want to have an LLM help you crap out a script, sure, but you mean to tell me you'd seriously consider using an LLM for a production systems that affects real people that deals with real people's real data and call yourself a software "engineer"?

Engineering is about designing systems that serve society and provably meet well specified constraints. You don't want the god damn bridge to collapse under load. If you feel comfortable using an LLM to "engineer" a software system, you ought to feel comfortable letting civil engineers "vibe out" their bridge designs. God this hype cycle has just made a complete mockery of this whole industry and I have no respect for the clowns pushing this shit.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#36

Honestly, the fact that this is even a concept assessed with any seriousness shows me how much bullshit the label "engineering" is when applied to software. You want to have an LLM help you crap out a script, sure, but you mean to tell me you'd seriously consider using an LLM for a production systems that affects real people that deals with real people's real data and call yourself a software "engineer"? Engineering…

I mean, with the way things are going currently, I wouldn't be surprised if the "vibe-based engineering" paradigm gets applied to real-world engendering too.

The bridge collapsed? Oops, software error, can't do anything about it!

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#38
post #33

It's interesting to see a lot of senior folks are against this arguing that if you're working on a larger software project this falls apart. Two things can be argued against this: 1. Context sizes are going to grow. Gemini with 2M tokens is already doing amazing feats 2. We all agree that we should break bigger problems into smaller ones. So if you can isolate the problem into something that fits in a LLM context, no…

Compartmentizing the code only matters if it works in the first place.

The main argument from senior folks is probably that vibe codes won't cut it for actual sizeable problem. There is complexity that can't be abstracted away just because we want to.

Re: Vibe Coding and the Future of Software Engineering

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they still can't really fix bugs. syntax errors sure, but actual time-costing logic bugs? figuring out lifetimes with rust? forget about it. all they do is add freaking print statements and say "try these things to fix it." no. you're the robot, you work for me, you do it. Have you tried the reasoning models? I find that o1 really is able to find logic bugs, even tricky ones!

i'm glad they seem to work better for you. i sometimes seem to be the only person out there who can't get the same level of utility out of these models as others. my guess is for some applications they can, but even reasoning models (o3-mini-high, grok3, sonnet 3.7, o1, deepseek, etc.) often fail to fix logic bugs. note that this isn't necessarily a form validation logic bug I'm referring to but, say, a pretty in-the…

You're not alone. Fixing bugs is usually really easy anyway, and it takes me more effort to feed the context to the LLM than to fix them myself.

The real complicated "bugs" often come from unclear requirements and the hard part is clearing up the requirements. It's more about design than logic errors in the code. And LLMs suck hard at this.

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