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Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

science.org

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Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#31

Post by dahdum »

stonogo wrote: post #4

I don't have any insight into hospitalizations, but as someone who was not vaccinated at the time I came down with COVID-19, Paxlovid was the difference between feeling utterly horrible and barely being able to get out of bed to being able to work remotely at full productivity. I took the first dose on the first morning and by the next morning the difference was night and day. I too experienced the bizarre changes in…

That metallic taste still gives me shudders when I think about it, but I’m very grateful for Paxlovid.

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#33

Post by temporallobe »

My father almost died on Paxlovid. Almost immediately after taking it, he ended up in the ER, complaining of cardiac issues (severe arrhythmias and pain) and saying he felt like death. It wasn’t exactly a cardiac arrest, rather an “event”. While one could say it was Covid, the timing of the symptoms were too coincidental to ignore. It took him 2 months to start feeling normal. He had had covid twice before and was sufficiently vaccinated.

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#34

Post by riversflow »

gp wrote: post #30

I took Paxlovid twice. Horrible bitter taste, but kept the symptoms at bay. No long covid or persisting brain fog unlike some of my friends. Tested negative by the end of the treatment. My fiancé didn't catch it from my while I isolated. Derek doesn't have to take Paxlovid next time, but I will.

The extremely well-documented strength of the placebo effect is exactly why medical trials need to be so robust.

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#35

Post by groby_b »

monktastic1 wrote: post #12
francisofascii wrote: post #7

For most people now, the whole reason to take Paxlovid is the avoid long covid. The hospitalization risk is less of a concern. The article points out at the end that this drug has shown evidence of avoiding long covid.

But only in high-risk patients, it should be noted.

There's some evidence in lower risk groups too. It's alas not an on-off switch, and you can't file a complaint Covid sorted you in the wrong group.

Does that mean we should all absolutely take Paxlovid? No, quite likely not. But the question is more "how close to the high risk group are you" than "are you high risk".

For e.g. 20-yo white men, the answer in both cases is roughly the same. But say they're 55 (or 65 and healthy as a horse) it probably deserves a bit more thought

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#36

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

energy123 wrote: post #17

This appears to be a hasty conclusion. Older people with paxlovid did equally well as younger people without paxlovid. That indicates that paxlovid actually works, given that older age leads to covid mortality! The author's only refutation of this is that the same pattern was observed before Paxlovid was around. But that pattern itself is an aberration that is not true of the general population, it's only true in tha…

> That indicates that paxlovid actually works

It had no measurable effect in the measured group. You can't say that it works based on that. If it had a measurable effect in that group, you would expect to see improvement in the treatment group between the two scenarios.

If (65-69 no treatment) == (70-74 no treatment) and also (65-69 no treatment) == (70-74 treatment), then (70-74 treatment) == (70-74 no treatment) by the transitive property of equality.

Now the reason for (65-69 no treatment) == (70-74 no treatment) may be its own mystery, but we expect to see at least _something_ happen anyway between (70-74 no treatment) and (70-74 treatment) if the treatment had some benefit for that group, and apparently they didn't see that.

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#37

Post by gwervc »

talkingtab wrote: post #22

My experience was odd. And this is just a description with no science. I was vaccinated, got COVID. At no point were my symptoms serious. Because of age and past heart issues I was given paxlovid. Two weeks after the paxlovid (or something like that) I became sick again, more seriously. With COVID. The symptoms I experienced were much worse but not life threatening and I recovered fully. However, it was odd that the…

> I was vaccinated, got COVID

How is this possible?

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#39

Post by thenerdhead »

I believe Science would benefit from a different approach to reporting, as Derek’s analysis over the past four years has been consistently lacking.

A responsible science reporter should present the full body of evidence rather than drawing conclusions from a single study.

Currently, a 900-person study is exploring Paxlovid’s potential for three clusters of Long COVID patients using a novel ultra-sensitive single-molecule assay. While many question its effectiveness in short treatment durations, there is reason to believe it could have extended benefits, similar to treatments for hepatitis C or feline coronavirus infections.

Having read and shared thousands of studies on SARS-CoV-2 and Long COVID, I find it irresponsible to dismiss a drug based on a single study, especially when broader research suggests that access to antivirals may reduce the risk of developing Long COVID, even among vaccinated individuals.

New antivirals are awaiting FDA approval, and an updated version of Paxlovid is in development. Derek’s analysis is not only misleading but also incorrect, and it would be best if he reconsidered the reach of his words.

Re: Paxlovid: You'd have expected more

#40

Post by tehjoker »

talkingtab wrote: post #22

My experience was odd. And this is just a description with no science. I was vaccinated, got COVID. At no point were my symptoms serious. Because of age and past heart issues I was given paxlovid. Two weeks after the paxlovid (or something like that) I became sick again, more seriously. With COVID. The symptoms I experienced were much worse but not life threatening and I recovered fully. However, it was odd that the…

If you take Paxlovid for 5 days, there is a risk of rebound. It's not guaranteed that the rebound will be "mild". Basically, if you take it early, the virus is suppressed before your immune system ramps, so if it recovers, you get potentially a regular course of COVID....

There's some talk that maybe the course should really be for 10 days, but the pharma companies are charging insane prices for it far beyond their costs.

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