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Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

privacyguides.org

31–40 of 54 posts

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#31
post #23

> It's the mindset assuming that for anything to have value in data privacy it needs to be 100% perfectly private and secure. It does also need to make a difference though. If Google has say three different ways of figuring out who I am and I eliminate one of them then nothing has changed. Let’s say IP address, fingerprinting and cookies. In that sense it is somewhat all or nothing. Either I’ve eliminated all three o…

> If Google has say three different ways of figuring out who I am and I eliminate one of them then nothing has changed.

That's not true! If Google has three ways and you eliminate one, and nothing else ever happens, then you might as well not do anything. But if there's one approach to data security that protects you from one kind of tracking, and you "set it and forget it," then it's chugging away in the background not really protecting you now—but if you later "set and forget" two other approaches to data security, then, together, they might have eliminated the problem, even if none of them individually made any difference.

(Stating the attempted refutation this way, it feels kind of like the privacy version of the refutation of "what good is half an eye?", e.g., https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolution-101/the-big-issues/...)

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#33
For me, privacy is a way, or tao. It's how I carry myself, internally, externally. And I know much of my effort is ineffective. I know I'm oozing identifiers and unique signatures everywhere.

But to me it's similar to posture, or maybe hygiene. I stand tall but know I'm feeble. I wash but know the bacteria persists. And I actually think the invasion of privacy is analogous to bacteria in its inevitability, ubiquity, and perhaps even virulence snd symbiosis. It's a kind of day dream - one that if ever presenting actual opportunity, I will seize if I can grasp it. But I've come to not expect much of it, however much I desire it or make token efforts toward.

But I remain closely aligned with its principle. And I sustain its spirit. Primarily, I uphold it by valuing, respecting and defending the privacy of others where I'm able. There's a different kind of privacy, and vaguely but formidably unassailable solitude, for those who value the sanctity of others. I think it reduces the value of the corrupt currency of data, in some small way.

But I don't think I'd survive long without ublock or the cozy alcove of foss. Nor might I want to.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#34

I don't trust Privacy Guides. They must have some kind of deal with Brave. They didn't accept Brave and then out of nowhere they start accepting it with the excuse of having a Chromium-based browser.

We don't have a deal with Brave. It was added almost 3 years ago, and nobody has even proposed removing it in the time since. Furthermore, it would be insane and likely illegal for a public charity to strike a deal to serve an undisclosed advertisement for a product from a private company. I think our position on Brave is clear enough from the very first paragraph in the guide: > We recommend Mullvad Browser if you a…

> We recommend Mullvad Browser if you are focused on strong privacy protections and anti-fingerprinting out of the box

Just want to put emphasis on “out of the box”. Changing any of the default settings will cause you to stand out. The fingerprinting protection is essentially to have a bunch of people all using the same browser with all of the mechanisms used for fingerprinting being either disabled or giving the same results on all installations; everyone has the same fingerprint.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#35
post #23

> It's the mindset assuming that for anything to have value in data privacy it needs to be 100% perfectly private and secure. It does also need to make a difference though. If Google has say three different ways of figuring out who I am and I eliminate one of them then nothing has changed. Let’s say IP address, fingerprinting and cookies. In that sense it is somewhat all or nothing. Either I’ve eliminated all three o…

If you eliminate fingerprinting, that is in and of itself a fingerprint. If you block cookies, that is too. So the person with your IP address and blocks fingerprinting and cookies is you. Someone with your IP address and only blocking cookies could be you as well on another device, or a family member on their device. Either way, they're on to you

> If you eliminate fingerprinting, that is in and of itself a fingerprint.

This is why you should "eliminate fingerprinting" by randomizing your fingerprint.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#36
"Binary thinking" and "zero-sum game framing" are (ime) extremely common logical facilities that affect even highly educated people. I think the reason for this is that these framing are approximate solutions. But truth is that approximate solutions are often insufficient. Very few things are zero-sum games once we incorporate that pesky variable "time". I often see this framing with economics, yet a rising tide lifts all ships and even poor men (in developed countries at least) are far better off than kings of old. Similarly, one of the greatest advancements in logic in the 20th century was where (one of) my namesake noted that a binary decision has a third answer: "indeterminate"[0]. This is also at the heart of both computer science (halting) and physics.

I see this mindset a lot with privacy, and I think a lot of it is apathy or more that people have been run down. I'm at the tail end of a CS PhD and I even have a hard time convincing people in my program to communicate with me over Signal vs text. Common answers being "they have my data anyways" and people buying into a whole ecosystem. But truth is, fragmenting your data is an important part to data privacy. You minimize what you can, and what you leak you try to distribute. Information's power is in its aggregation, so you make it harder to aggregate.

I think it is the same as with security. There's no real perfect security[1], and realistically security is more about putting up speed bumps than impenetrable doors. Just sometimes your speed bump is so large that you got to build a car that couldn't fit on the road if you want to make it over (you can always brute force a password). The goal is to make it too expensive, too time consuming, or too costly to use that route or maybe even to attempt an attack in the first place. The same is true for privacy. Make them pay more for that data. Make it harder to aggregate. Make your data as noisy or indistinguishable from noise as possible (small footprints are better than extra footprints). Because this isn't a zero-sum game instantaneous game, this is a constant battle and it is always cat and mouse.

But I do think we as the programmers, the developers, the makers, should also have a serious talk about the consequences of surveillance capitalism. With any engineering, it is always easy to get caught up in the upsides and downplay the downsides. The path to hell is paved with good intentions, not malice[2]. Every engineer has to have a code of ethics, surely Ethan Zuckerman didn't foresee the hell he created, and had good intentions. While we don't build bridges that can collapse (actually... we do) there can be no doubt that information can be weaponized. It seems no matter what your politics are that this is recognizable and in conversation. And I think these conversations can still be had in an apolitical setting (which I hope we will do here, but I understand the pull towards that direction[3]). I do encourage apolitical discussions because these can be had within the workplace and can be had without starting fights. I do believe that many people will often find themselves on the same side when had conversations not initiated this way they would not have. At the end of the day, it requires a community to make these changes and even if we disagree on some things that doesn't prevent us from working together towards common goals.

[0] Godel was said to have been inspired by the paradox "this statement is false" but that's probably folklore. "Indeterminate" here is equivalent to "this statement cannot be proved"

[1] Okay, I know, but if you know then you know what I mean here

[2] I think it is important to recognize that evil is often created when good men are trying their best. So be careful when making attributions, because evil is sly and subtle. If it weren't, we'd have purged it long ago.

[3] I believe that the discussion around "Turnkey Tyranny" often helps with keeping things apolitical. Because one needs not say that any one party is or will become tyrannical, but we can remain abstract in a future scenario and consider the risk-reward calculus (I'm sure more relevant than ever).

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#38
post #23

> It's the mindset assuming that for anything to have value in data privacy it needs to be 100% perfectly private and secure. It does also need to make a difference though. If Google has say three different ways of figuring out who I am and I eliminate one of them then nothing has changed. Let’s say IP address, fingerprinting and cookies. In that sense it is somewhat all or nothing. Either I’ve eliminated all three o…

  > Let’s say IP address, fingerprinting and cookies.
This will still not lead to a binary outcome. Cookies can be deleted and fingerprints aren't perfect. Nor is Google able to obtain this data from sites equally. Amazon and Facebook certainly are not sharing liberally, as this is a big part of their revenue streams too. Their competition can benefit us in our defense.

You also forget time. There is historical data, current data, and future data. You can tackle all of these, and they should be addressed differently. You can remove data and that can prevent future players or potential sales of your data. But we should also be really aware that the future data is most important. You change over time and they want to track these changes. The more you can limit their access, the more you fight back. One easy method is to use email masks. You can do this for free or relatively cheap, but I've changed most of my logins to unique emails as well as unique passwords (fwiw, Mozilla Relay integrates into Bitwarden, making this simple). I've now been able to track who is leaking my information to who, and better adapt to the environment. It also means that if one of these sites gets hacked than I can easily burn that email address and not be forever locked in a circulating list.

So I just want you to realize, you haven't been defeated yet. As long as you generate new data, there is time for you to fight back.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#39
post #28
post #26

Again, and tediously, with my rule of thumb about privacy technology guides: Here's a concrete example: Let's say your friend just told you they moved their communications from SMS to Signal. This is something to celebrate! Your friend just improved their data privacy a lot by deciding to start using Signal instead of SMS. It is absolutely not the time to tell your friend things like "Okay, but you're not even using…

There's a lot more context about what browsers they recommend (and what they recommend them for) on the dedicated page for it: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/desktop-browsers/ The part you quoted was an example of what _not_ to do ("not the time").

I read it accurately.

Re: Privacy Is Not Dead: Beware the All-or-Nothing Mindset

#40
post #26

Again, and tediously, with my rule of thumb about privacy technology guides: Here's a concrete example: Let's say your friend just told you they moved their communications from SMS to Signal. This is something to celebrate! Your friend just improved their data privacy a lot by deciding to start using Signal instead of SMS. It is absolutely not the time to tell your friend things like "Okay, but you're not even using…

Most are, most are affiliate link-farms in disguise as well, and privacyguides.org is written in response to such guides.

It is called privacy guides and not security guides for a reason, and many of our basic "recommendations" are geared towards a specific threat model that does not include, for example, being targeted by law enforcement or others with access to zero-day vulnerabilities or similarly targeted exploits. They are geared towards avoiding commercial-grade tracking, especially by corporations, and dragnet mass surveillance programs.

This is why we place so much of an emphasis on threat modeling before suggesting recommendations in the first place though, to make sure readers know exactly when the recommendations apply to them and when they instead need to seek additional resources. We have countless pages within our community forum detailing why and when Chromium is technically superior to Firefox.

This is also why we don't recommend Firefox on mobile devices at all, because while we do feel Firefox on desktop is adequately secure for many people, we don't feel that is the case on Android, unfortunately.

Anyways, thank you for your insight. I will look into making this more clear at a glance.

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