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New junior developers can’t code

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31–40 of 138 posts

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#31

The implication that Stack Overflow was somehow the only way you'd ever find a solution to a gnarly problem (back in the day) seems weird to me. I mean before that (even during that) there was the alternative problem solving technique of, well, rolling up your sleeves getting stuck in and figuring out the problem yourself without asking anybody. By doing some reading. Or by reading source code. Or disassembling code…

> the alternative problem solving technique of, well, rolling up your sleeves getting stuck in and figuring out the problem yourself without asking anybody.

Meanwhile, boss wants the fix now...

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#32

The implication that Stack Overflow was somehow the only way you'd ever find a solution to a gnarly problem (back in the day) seems weird to me. I mean before that (even during that) there was the alternative problem solving technique of, well, rolling up your sleeves getting stuck in and figuring out the problem yourself without asking anybody. By doing some reading. Or by reading source code. Or disassembling code…

The problem is with managers pushing hard deadlines and expecting immediate responses.

That being said any large company I've worked at seems to have followed the mantra you are putting down.

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#34
post #16

When I was younger people derided us new junior developers who relied on compiling and running their code to see what it would do, instead of thinking deeply about it. Using a REPL is a sure sign of a weak mind. I feel like every 15 years or so you can just find-and-replace the name of the tech we decide is only for Not Real Programmers.

I had a boss who could program machine code directly into memory using the switches on the front panel God knows what he thought about me

I mean, to be fair, that's actually a lot easier than dealing with the giant mess of infrastructure and tooling people have to understand today. And yes I've "programmed" machine code through toggle switches on a front panel.

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#35
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how ten years ago it was folks complaining about juniors using Google to code, this articles first suggestion was juniors need to Google more. Twenty years ago it was that Python was not as good as learning C or something. Thirty, it was probably folks lamenting juniors can’t code x86 asm.

Nah, they are still whining here, on Hacker News, about how a 91 KB webpage is too large to be considered disciplined. (Literally saw that comment earlier today.)

> 91 KB webpage

If it's all code too large indeed

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#36
What the post describes is kids misusing AI. You can always ask AI how a code works. Ask GPT, then have Claude review it, then have Gem chip in. Ask all of them to ELI5 every single detail of the code, and then try to explain it yourself, in your own words.

I'm sorry but for many of us socially awkward folk having to rely on begging to solve coding tasks felt like chewing glass.

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#37
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue comes 5-10 years from now when there’s a serious shortage of senior devs. I mean… as a senior dev now, I’m not complaining, but it can’t be good for the industry at large.

People who studied computer science, even on their own, are going to do just fine as long as they don't turn off their brains. I am not losing any sleep over this.

> as they don't turn off their brains

Let’s hope.

But it seems like we do turn off our brains when using AI tools.

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4698/15/1/6

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#38
post #2

This article is just the latest in the long history of lamenting the laziness of the youth

While a trope, it is also statistically proven that the youth of this generation are doing worse, by almost every metric, than prior generations; including but not limited to achieving adult milestones years later than normal, record high percentages of medication distribution, and (for what it’s worth) a historically low percentage of young people that could even enter the military if they wanted to, at just 1 in 7.

Gen Z also has a lower crime rate, less teen birth rates, and less illegal drugs and alcohol consumption when compared to previous generations at the same age.

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#39
I wrote this article! Thanks for sharing.

Love the discussion on HN as always, great to see various perspectives on the issue.

Do you think that in the future, new programmers will not ever need to learn syntax/algorithms and will just be able to rely on AI?

Re: New junior developers can’t code

#40
I can't really speak to the impact on junior devs since I haven't worked with any since the start of AI dev tools so this comment is kind of off topic.

Totally agree that should be treated as learning tool just as much "give me something that works" tool. If Junior devs are not taking advantage of that side of it instinctively out of their own curiosity and interest, well, maybe they were never going to be good developers in the first place even without AI.

What I can say is that for me as a as senior dev with 22 years experience who has been using using these tools daily for about a year now, it has been a huge win with no downsides.

I am so much more efficient at unblocking myself and others with all the minor "how do I do X in Y" and "what is causing this error" type questions. I know exactly what I want to do, how to ask it, but only partially what the answer should be... and AI takes away the tedious part of bridging that knowledge gap for me.

Maybe even more significantly, I have learned new things at a much faster rate. When AI suggests solutions I am often exposed to different ways to do things I already knew, features I didn't know existed, etc. I feel good that I found a solution to my problem, but often I feel even better having learned something along the way that wasn't even the original goal and it didn't really take any extra dedicated effort.

The best part is that is has made side projects a lot more fun and I stick with them a lot longer because I get something working sooner and spend less time fighting problems. I also find myself taking on new types of projects that are outside my comfort and experience zone.

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