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US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

energy.gov

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Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#31

Post by k310 »

"Someone" has a serious phobia regarding shower heads and gas stoves. My house came with a gas stove with three pilots that heat up the house on those 110 degree days and I can't find the shutoff (it's behind the stove somewhere) to shut the damn thing off without killing the furnace and water heater.

Consolation might be if I sell the abomination, some deranged (pun unintended) person may overpay for the nostalgia.

As for the alternative, PG&E more than doubled my electric rates, though I did get a stovetop Wolf oven, never having had an oven that was accurate. My former Breville quit one day after the warranty expired. I believe the cause was a 29 cent inline fuse buried between panels past about 30 screws holding the back on. I never found the fuse.

Can't win.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#32

Post by userbinator »

nullc wrote: post #15

I hope this means a move away from standards that result in serious usability impacts for moderate improvements. Examples I've personally experienced is that many/most driers now available require multiple attempts to get clothes actually try. Then there was the debacle of fedora enabling aggressive power saving in a difficult to disable way in updates, claiming it was mandated-- resulting in nonsense like remote han…

No kidding. This stupid "climate change" BS is finally getting the cut it deserves.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#34

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nullc wrote: post #15

I hope this means a move away from standards that result in serious usability impacts for moderate improvements. Examples I've personally experienced is that many/most driers now available require multiple attempts to get clothes actually try. Then there was the debacle of fedora enabling aggressive power saving in a difficult to disable way in updates, claiming it was mandated-- resulting in nonsense like remote han…

This is a common problem with regulatory agencies. They're created to address some real problem, but then they address it, and they still exist, so what are they supposed to do now?

Meanwhile the original rules were the low-hanging fruit. Originally some products were only 50% efficient, but the modern products are 90% efficient. Energy consumption fell from 300 W to 167 W. If you ask them to trim off another 133 watts, that's a violation of the laws of physics. If you ask them for the last 17 watts that are theoretically physically possible, that's not really a thing either. At best you can trim off another 5 W by making some onerous design trade offs that aren't worth five watts.

But what are they going to do if their job is to make new rules?

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#35

Post by jauntywundrkind »

userbinator wrote: post #33
insane_dreamer wrote: post #2

So this is what it's like to go backward instead of forward. China cannot believe its good fortune.

Backwards to no more cheap Chinese crap!

These are the groups that insured that whatever we got was at least somewhat decent.

Standards are amazing. Blowing them up merely creates permission for bad.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#36

Post by ides_dev »

I’ve never read a press release by a US government agency before, so it may be the standard, but the language in it strikes me as petty and childish, especially the last piece; “sprinkler nozzles that just don’t work well”.

“The people, not the government, should be choosing the home appliances and products they want at prices they can afford.” - you still get to choose which appliance you have in your home, but the government is there to help ensure that appliance is reliable and efficient.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#37

Post by cycomanic »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #21
insane_dreamer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Trump wants to gut anything related to climate change initiatives because they were enacted by the previous administration. It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves. You don't even have to do a lot of critical thinking to get this; Trump has made it pretty clear.

> It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves. So do you think the claim that it's cheaper to build to looser standards is a lie, or do you think cheaper appliances did not play any role in motivating this order and only came up after the fact? I'm pretty sure at least one of those has to be true for your claim to be true, and I'm quite skeptical of both. (If you said it was mostly about climate change spite I'…

> > It has nothing to do with quality tradeoff curves. > > So do you think the claim that it's cheaper to build to looser standards is a lie, or do you think cheaper appliances did not play any role in motivating this order and only came up after the fact?

That's not what the government title claimed though. They claim cheaper prices. You likely know, cheaper production prices don't necessarily lead to cheaper consumer prices. Moreover, often reduced quality/efficiency actually results in higher lifetime costs, something which is often difficult to ascertain for consumers (one reason for regulations).

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#38

Post by sebazzz »

nullc wrote: post #15

I hope this means a move away from standards that result in serious usability impacts for moderate improvements. Examples I've personally experienced is that many/most driers now available require multiple attempts to get clothes actually try. Then there was the debacle of fedora enabling aggressive power saving in a difficult to disable way in updates, claiming it was mandated-- resulting in nonsense like remote han…

> Examples I've personally experienced is that many/most driers now available require multiple attempts to get clothes actually try.

You used so many heat pump dryers? They are fairly new. It sounds like you're generalising. A Indesit we had was crappy, our current Bosch 6 is fine but harder to clean the heat exchanger which had been improved in newer versions.

Re: US Energy Department ending appliance efficiency standards

#39

Post by zegerjan »

yodon wrote: post #30

If you want to understand the impact this kind of energy rule had while in effect, read up on the Rosenfeld Effect[0]. Arthur Rosenfeld was the driving force behind California and US energy conservation regulations in the 1970's and early 1980's. His direct personal impact on energy cost savings in the US is unbelievable, even before you inflation convert it to modern dollars. Disassembling an old refrigerator from b…

The EU Banning inefficient vacuum cleaners had a similar effect. Though I'm not aware who is responsible for the policy.
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