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"the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

mediaite.com

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Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#31

Post by spondylosaurus »

SoftTalker wrote: post #20
Nursie wrote: post #9

I enjoyed the year I consulted at JPMC, they have some sharp people, and on the surface of it, who am I to criticise the boss of such a successful company? OTOH… I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted. But… I haven’t set foot in an office for five years now and I’m as productive as I ever was. Possibly more. As for his “people are di…

> I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted. I agree with this, but I didn't grow up with a phone in my hand. I didn't have a mobile phone until I was about 30 years old and I didn't have a smartphone until I was in my 40s. I can't work well with people over remote calls, I hate Zoom and desktop sharing, don't like slack or teams. I fin…

Counter-perspective, but largely in agreement: I did grow up with a mobile phone and instant messaging and whatnot, and so using Slack (and to some extent, Zoom, as much as I dislike video compared to text) feels very natural to me.

To me, as someone who has deep and meaningful friendships with certain people mediated almost entirely through Discord messaging, which is basically non-work Slack, asynchronous mentorship and collaboration don't seem strange at all. I do recognize not everyone's a fan, and that there is a certain learning curve involved if you're not used to it (gamers, for example, seem to fall into virtual work naturally), but it's absolutely doable and these C-levels who say it's not are behind the curve.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#32

Post by bfeynman »

milesrout wrote: post #27

Is there a better source for this story? This is very tabloid.

In the amount of time you spent writing this comment you could have just done cursory google search and got literally right to the leaked audio recordings everywhere: https://www.barrons.com/articles/jamie-dimon-leaked-audio-jp...

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#33

Post by milesrout »

ryandrake wrote: post #15
gotoeleven wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

If people are checked out during meetings, maybe they don't really have to be there. When I set up a meeting I try to ensure only people who really, really need to be there are invited. Way too many meetings are like: "1. Eng Lead Presenter, 2. VP who's receiving the update, and 3-10. Team members involved in the project." If 3-10 are not expected to speak/contribute and already know what 1 is presenting, why the fuc…

Or maybe they do have to be there, but they aren't paying attention? It isn't a given that people will pay attention if they need to, that is the whole point.

There are lots of reasons someone might be in a meeting. They might be there to receive certain information. They might be there because they're going to be assigned work as a result of it. They might be there because hearing the actual conversation with the client is useful for being able to understand the context of the work. Getting that third hand from someone that didn't talk to the client is nowhere near as good. That is what leads to wasting time and money doing work nobody wanted.

Sometimes people just don't pay attention when they should. That is real. It is not sensible to immediately assume they're justified in not paying attention. Even if you aren't needed and you aren't interested, it is your job. You are paid good money to be there. Your contract requires you to follow lawful instructions from your employer. Do the job properly and look at your phone at lunchtime. You don't have the right to switch off and start playing with your phone because you are a bit bored and have the attention span of a teenager brought up on Tiktok.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#34

Post by spondylosaurus »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #12
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #5

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

i sort of agree wit your sentiment, although probably would use more nuanced language about it. i’ve had this exact conversation with my 70+ still working father so many times now. i’ve heard the rant in the article over and over again. and, like, he blames remote work too. “its the fucking zoom bullshit”. but then i explain to him how i do remote work and suddenly gets it. like, remote working means you are required…

Bingo. Remote work requires/rewards good communication, and amplifies the ill effects of poor communication. You have to put in the effort, but a lot of people don't know how or don't think they need to!

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#36

Post by zmgsabst »

ryandrake wrote: post #15
gotoeleven wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get people to stop looking at their fucking phones during zoom meetings? Sure if we had a magic perfect management fairy that could sprinkle perfect management skills on the managers maybe people would be better at working remotely but people are mostly lazy and will mostly do whatever they can get away with. And its way easier to get away with looking at your fucking phone during a zoom meeting than an in…

If people are checked out during meetings, maybe they don't really have to be there. When I set up a meeting I try to ensure only people who really, really need to be there are invited. Way too many meetings are like: "1. Eng Lead Presenter, 2. VP who's receiving the update, and 3-10. Team members involved in the project." If 3-10 are not expected to speak/contribute and already know what 1 is presenting, why the fuc…

I’m a big proponent of optional and required on meeting invites.

Required: tech lead and VP.

Optional: everyone else.

I have nothing against people showing up just because they want to snoop on what’s being said and spending half the time on their phone — but I reply maybe to anything optional sent to me.

I find people sort themselves out if you have enough floating optional invites you can’t attend all of them.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#37

Post by hardlianotion »

gotoeleven wrote: post #30
ryandrake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are checked out during meetings, maybe they don't really have to be there. When I set up a meeting I try to ensure only people who really, really need to be there are invited. Way too many meetings are like: "1. Eng Lead Presenter, 2. VP who's receiving the update, and 3-10. Team members involved in the project." If 3-10 are not expected to speak/contribute and already know what 1 is presenting, why the fuc…

Nope suppose they do need to be there and they arent listening because they're sending text messages and then when they are asked for their opinion they are lost because they weren't listening. This is the norm for zoom meetings.

this is fixed for in person meetings is it?

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#38

Post by PeterHolzwarth »

gedy wrote: post #18
Nursie wrote: post #9

I enjoyed the year I consulted at JPMC, they have some sharp people, and on the surface of it, who am I to criticise the boss of such a successful company? OTOH… I can see the argument that young people aren’t being exposed to older peers the same way and their learning may be stunted. But… I haven’t set foot in an office for five years now and I’m as productive as I ever was. Possibly more. As for his “people are di…

> people are distracted during meetings It feels like he's just old and pining for days gone by - in person meetings have people staring at their laptops and phones too. I dislike that as well, but that's not a WFH issue.

Where I worked in the past, those people would get a private reprimand after that meeting.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#39

Post by greesil »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #12
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #5

We have some really phoning it in zoom folks we've hired who do their job semi ok but are just awful and don't contribute to culture, are super dialed out. I don't want to totally damn them, because they have families and lives and other things going. But I've had a number of coworkers tell me they have re-adapted their code review to say near nothing (it won't be well received) and to otherwise end their own good-cu…

i sort of agree wit your sentiment, although probably would use more nuanced language about it. i’ve had this exact conversation with my 70+ still working father so many times now. i’ve heard the rant in the article over and over again. and, like, he blames remote work too. “its the fucking zoom bullshit”. but then i explain to him how i do remote work and suddenly gets it. like, remote working means you are required…

What I've noticed is that people don't seem to have the attention span to read the document or memo I wrote, and the meeting is so they can get the TL;DR.

Re: "the Zooms don't show up" Jamie Dimon

#40

Post by dijksterhuis »

gotoeleven wrote: post #30
ryandrake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are checked out during meetings, maybe they don't really have to be there. When I set up a meeting I try to ensure only people who really, really need to be there are invited. Way too many meetings are like: "1. Eng Lead Presenter, 2. VP who's receiving the update, and 3-10. Team members involved in the project." If 3-10 are not expected to speak/contribute and already know what 1 is presenting, why the fuc…

Nope suppose they do need to be there and they arent listening because they're sending text messages and then when they are asked for their opinion they are lost because they weren't listening. This is the norm for zoom meetings.

it sounds to me like they don’t believe they need to be there / to care about the meeting, but you do.

that’s sounds like the real problem you need to address, the real underlying conflict between you and them.

so… why don’t they care about your meeting…?

if you can fix that problem, you might naturally solve the phone problem. they might start giving a shit.

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