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Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

economist.com

31–40 of 121 posts

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#31

Just make roof solar panels with tiltable shades that limit the incoming sunlight for this kind of situations. This is when there is no battery storage involved. If the solar-roofed house can involve home batteries, problem solved.

You don't need to. If you don't draw the energy from the panels, nothing happens. It's not like a turbine where you'd have to dump the energy into a dummy load. Solar power not used is simply not produced.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#32

> "lots of self-generated power will ultimately be wasted." This is sunlight falling on a roof. If you convert it into electricity but then don't use that electricity, is it really a waste? It's like saying that the overflow from my water tank that collects rain water off the roof is 'wasting' water. It could be argued that it's a waste in the sense that the generated electricity could have gone to someone else if th…

I wish I had this problem with my arrays.

The solution is obvious and cheap. You don't need powerwalls in 2025 all the major backup battery manufacturers now make $3-4k models which you can wheel around and can take your excess with zero conf off the shelf.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#33
This reminds me that utilities can limit the size of your rooftop solar system, which locks you into whatever your usage you had at install time. Because of that it's difficult for me to actually achieve net zero electric usage and it's more cost effective for me to remain on a gas furnace instead of upgrading to a heat pump. This is such a shame. I wish I could just get 2 more KWh.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#34
post #21

> "lots of self-generated power will ultimately be wasted." This is sunlight falling on a roof. If you convert it into electricity but then don't use that electricity, is it really a waste? It's like saying that the overflow from my water tank that collects rain water off the roof is 'wasting' water. It could be argued that it's a waste in the sense that the generated electricity could have gone to someone else if th…

The hubris in this article is unreal: it's posing that privately owned utilities are a good thing and that bypassing them is some crime that's done by ratepayers. I hope that business model dies in a fire. Instead the entire paradigm of centralized generation may need to be called into question and we should instead be focusing on a hybrid centralized baseline + local generation and storage. Places like China do fine…

I mean it is "The Economist".

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#35
post #31

Just make roof solar panels with tiltable shades that limit the incoming sunlight for this kind of situations. This is when there is no battery storage involved. If the solar-roofed house can involve home batteries, problem solved.

You don't need to. If you don't draw the energy from the panels, nothing happens. It's not like a turbine where you'd have to dump the energy into a dummy load. Solar power not used is simply not produced.

Nice, in this case the solution is really easy, just a switch that the grid operator can turn off to cut the solar panels off the grid when there is not enough demand.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#36

> "lots of self-generated power will ultimately be wasted." This is sunlight falling on a roof. If you convert it into electricity but then don't use that electricity, is it really a waste? It's like saying that the overflow from my water tank that collects rain water off the roof is 'wasting' water. It could be argued that it's a waste in the sense that the generated electricity could have gone to someone else if th…

The other grid operators have to lower their production during the day. That itself can be expensive, but more importantly they run their same equipment to power fewer hours of the day; when solar is not available, which is expensive since they have significant fixed costs. Batteries are not a grid scale solution any time soon, but maybe one day.

We use batteries in South Australia to stabilize our grid already.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#37

This reminds me that utilities can limit the size of your rooftop solar system, which locks you into whatever your usage you had at install time. Because of that it's difficult for me to actually achieve net zero electric usage and it's more cost effective for me to remain on a gas furnace instead of upgrading to a heat pump. This is such a shame. I wish I could just get 2 more KWh.

I assume you mean 2kW not 2kWh. And you can; look up "Non-export addition". These are solar panels that are set to zero-export; they will either charge a battery or the current house loads, but never backfeed into the grid.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#38
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the mechanism behind this?

The electricity is switched off. If the system is fancy, maybe it's on a lower duty cycle. The panels just sit there, rotting, wasting their embodied energy.

I thought OP was saying there was actual damage to the solar cell if voltage is being generated but current isn't flowing causing lower efficiency.

This is like saying, "I bought a car and don't drive it." -- which people do.

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#39
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hubris in this article is unreal: it's posing that privately owned utilities are a good thing and that bypassing them is some crime that's done by ratepayers. I hope that business model dies in a fire. Instead the entire paradigm of centralized generation may need to be called into question and we should instead be focusing on a hybrid centralized baseline + local generation and storage. Places like China do fine…

I mean it is "The Economist".

Exactly! Why is it not advocating for being economical?

Re: Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

#40
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar panels use energy to create, and have a finite lifespan. If energy is generated but not used, it makes the average lifetime efficiency decrease. This does result in wasted energy.

Do you know the mechanism behind this?

Thermal cycling.
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