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Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

nature.com

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Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#31

Post by neom »

zelon88 wrote: post #29
cess11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Thirdly; this particular drug is not just mind altering, it is life altering." Why do you think that? In my experience most people that have used LSD changed little in their lives because of it. Looking back at the sixties, a lot of the people who dosed heavily then went on to work for the man or otherwise become very ordinary citizens.

That's true, and those people probably went on to live happier, more full, more wholesome lives than if they had never taken LSD. The first time I took LSD it unlocked a level of thinking that I was not capable of before. For example, other people's perspectives. I fell down such a deep rabbit hole of contemplating other people's feelings and perspectives that I could literally (in that moment) FEEL other people's fe…

You don't believe there are people out there who can feel other peoples feelings without drugs?

Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#32

Post by krispyfi »

corry wrote: post #2

Thanks for sharing, although I'm curious what prompted this to be posted in 2025? I've heard from a few underground psychedelic facilitators that LSD is one of the best 'medicines' for therapy of various kinds, but (a) the duration is often uncomfortably long, (b) the social/political stigma hangover from the 60s adds undesirable connotations which can 'prime' the participant in negative ways, and (c) the variability…

> if you don't have a way of measuring potency yourself

>Why don't you display actual milligram quantitative amounts? #

> In short, we are not allowed to do so. In the United States, the handling of Schedule I substances (MDMA, LSD, Cannabis, etc) is restricted to those with a valid license. Forensic labs such as DDL and others require and obtain licensure in order to operate. An unpublished administrative rule stipulates that licensed labs are not allowed to provide quantitative data to the public, reportedly for fear of providing 'quality control' to dealers and suppliers of black market products.

https://www.drugsdata.org/about_data.php

In Europe, one can send samples to drug checking services and get information about potency, but here the US Government is basically admitting that it's artificially inflating the risk of overdose by denying consumers information they need to stay safe. They can point to these inflated harms as justification for continued persecution of individuals who use drugs.

Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#33

Post by zelon88 »

neom wrote: post #31
zelon88 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, and those people probably went on to live happier, more full, more wholesome lives than if they had never taken LSD. The first time I took LSD it unlocked a level of thinking that I was not capable of before. For example, other people's perspectives. I fell down such a deep rabbit hole of contemplating other people's feelings and perspectives that I could literally (in that moment) FEEL other people's fe…

You don't believe there are people out there who can feel other peoples feelings without drugs?

I can't tell if this is ad hominem or not. Obviously empathy exists, but this is a much, much different level of empathy.

I think that if someone has experienced this drug they would have had the permanent, noticable shift in thinking and perception that I described. That shift would have precluded them from thinking someone without first hand experience could relate. I could sit here trying to explain the experience for hours what experience could do for them in 10 minutes.

Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#34

Post by neom »

zelon88 wrote: post #33
neom wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't believe there are people out there who can feel other peoples feelings without drugs?

I can't tell if this is ad hominem or not. Obviously empathy exists, but this is a much, much different level of empathy. I think that if someone has experienced this drug they would have had the permanent, noticable shift in thinking and perception that I described. That shift would have precluded them from thinking someone without first hand experience could relate. I could sit here trying to explain the experience…

I am talking about feeling other peoples feelings, you walk into a room and someone in that room feels your feeling literally as if it was theirs. Not empathy. I presume you are either unaware this is a thing or, don't believe this is a thing? It's typically one of the two. Some people have it strongly, some people don't seem to have it at all. Emotional Contagion is a good book although I don't think that is what it is, there is also this but I also don't think this is what it is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15217330/ - I have know one person who has what you described happening to a high enough degree she struggles in public, although you'd never really be able to tell except she is a bit "odd" I guess.

Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#35

Post by cess11 »

zelon88 wrote: post #29
cess11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Thirdly; this particular drug is not just mind altering, it is life altering." Why do you think that? In my experience most people that have used LSD changed little in their lives because of it. Looking back at the sixties, a lot of the people who dosed heavily then went on to work for the man or otherwise become very ordinary citizens.

That's true, and those people probably went on to live happier, more full, more wholesome lives than if they had never taken LSD. The first time I took LSD it unlocked a level of thinking that I was not capable of before. For example, other people's perspectives. I fell down such a deep rabbit hole of contemplating other people's feelings and perspectives that I could literally (in that moment) FEEL other people's fe…

Why do you think that?

What you're describing is one small part of becoming an adult, to start thinking about other people and caring about how they see the world. How old were you at the time? Did you grow up in an environment where your gender/class/whatever is taught to keep feelings hidden in public? Is there some other reason you weren't taught as a kid that it is important to be considerate and caring?

Such experiences can be quite deceptive, you know. One of my first LSD dealers thought he was being empathetic while tripping but he actually just ruminated on his own views and reinforced his own misconceptions about other people. The experience also gave him a feeling of superiority dressed up as self-perceived wisdom. At raves I met other people affected in the same way, and I found them rather insufferable. MDMA as well as other 5-HT2a-agonists can have a similar effect unless paired with therapeutic activities and careful self-reflection.

Re: Dose-dependent effects of LSD in double-blind placebo-controlled study (2020)

#36

Post by corry »

krispyfi wrote: post #32
corry wrote: post #2

Thanks for sharing, although I'm curious what prompted this to be posted in 2025? I've heard from a few underground psychedelic facilitators that LSD is one of the best 'medicines' for therapy of various kinds, but (a) the duration is often uncomfortably long, (b) the social/political stigma hangover from the 60s adds undesirable connotations which can 'prime' the participant in negative ways, and (c) the variability…

> if you don't have a way of measuring potency yourself >Why don't you display actual milligram quantitative amounts? # > In short, we are not allowed to do so. In the United States, the handling of Schedule I substances (MDMA, LSD, Cannabis, etc) is restricted to those with a valid license. Forensic labs such as DDL and others require and obtain licensure in order to operate. An unpublished administrative rule stipu…

Yes, you can't use official labs (which of course would be the gold standard) but you can order and use kits from places like Meraculix (who have a US distribution point, so the tests travel via domestic mail within the US). Not risk-free since ordering a test kit for a scheduled substance at least implicitly implies you have a scheduled substance in your possession (or access to one). Sorry about your drug laws.
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