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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#31

Post by ok123456 »

deergomoo wrote: post #23
malkia wrote: post #6

I've been long user of JetBrains' products - and love them. I even use ReSharper in Visual Studio (which I still consider better IDE, but for Linux / Mac - JetBrains is my choice, and heck, sometimes even Rider/CLion/RustRover/GoLand on Windows too - especcially GoLand). But... but... I've always wanted (and willing to pay) a single IDE with any plugin that works in it - not just so many different versions... I'm a m…

I would happily pay through the nose for their language and refactoring features as some sort of LSP or plugin for other editors. I use their products because that aspect is best-in-class for many languages, but the actual applications themselves leave a lot of be desired. Core text editing is pretty good, but so many Byzantine nested menus and odd Java fully-modal locks-out-the-background dialogs.

> Byzantine nested menus

crtl-shift-a

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#32

Post by kiawe_fire »

vips7L wrote: post #13
techwizrd wrote: post #4

This is definitely surprising given they announced a KMP standalone IDE only a few months ago. For now, Flutter still seems to make more sense than KMP while the KMP world is still maturing.

Dart is an amazing and underrated language too. It compiles to native assembly, has pattern matching, async/await, and null safety. The only thing it's missing in my opinion is some form of checked errors, currently they only have unchecked exceptions.

Oddly, I’m conflicted on Flutter so far, but I have loved working in Dart.

So much so that I ended up writing a queueing app for scheduling batches of sequential tasks on the server in Dart just to see how it could work as a NodeJS replacement, and thought the whole dev experience was great.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#33

Post by vips7L »

tadfisher wrote: post #27
vips7L wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart is an amazing and underrated language too. It compiles to native assembly, has pattern matching, async/await, and null safety. The only thing it's missing in my opinion is some form of checked errors, currently they only have unchecked exceptions.

The modern language landscape is backing away from checked exceptions. Funnily enough Kotlin eschewed them as well, converting checked to unchecked exceptions on the JVM.

The modern language landscape has not backed away from checked errors. Rust is praised for its checked errors, countless posts on this forum praise Result in multiple languages. Swift has checked errors and Kotlin is implementing them via union types in the near future.

Checked errors, via results or exceptions have never been the problem. It has always been Java the language that hasn't provided the syntax sugar for handling checked errors effectively.

There is no difference between:

    A doIt() throws B
    fun doIt(): Result
It all comes down to what the language lets you do once you encounter that error.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#34

Post by lallysingh »

laerus wrote: post #25
endofreach wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I have had the opposite experience. And i am happy that they're behind on the AI front. Way too many tools force their shitty AI (API wrapper) upon me already. And i have yet to see any benefit.

Agreed, RustRover is by far the best IDE for Rust atm. I also use the AI Assistant which is so toned down that it's actually useful and not full of spam.

RustRover and PyCharm keep my jetbrains subscription going. The AI assistant on pandas APIs is a godsend.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#35

Post by nprateem »

solardev wrote: post #28
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

[flagged]

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#36

Post by toprerules »

I'm a Vim user, but I occasionally try JetBrains/VSCode to see what I'm missing out on and RustRover, CLion, Goland etc. are by far the most sluggish pieces of software I've used. I am demonstrably slower on them than using Vim with my fuzzy finder, LSP, and AI integrations.

I thought Fleet might add the "magic" to something more VSCode like, but I also don't understand the long term vision.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#37

Post by nprateem »

realityfactchex wrote: post #20
codingwagie wrote: post #17

Personal opinion is that JetBrains products have gone down hill the last few years. Tons of memory leaks and performance issues. They are also way behind on the AI front, borderline obsolete in some areas. This is coming from someone who has used jetbrains daily for over a decade

What would you suggested instead of JetBrains tools for AI-assisted development? (I don't just want to hear what everyone says; I specifically I want to hear what JetBrains lovers think about this.) I was about to go all in on JetBrains becaue I can't stand VSCode, and about to transition from ChatGPT only to trying out in-IDE integrations... but if there's a better thing to try first... all ears.

Aider. Just add the files you need in the terminal, disable git autocommit and you're done. Tell it to do something then check the diff.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#38

Post by bastardoperator »

malkia wrote: post #6

I've been long user of JetBrains' products - and love them. I even use ReSharper in Visual Studio (which I still consider better IDE, but for Linux / Mac - JetBrains is my choice, and heck, sometimes even Rider/CLion/RustRover/GoLand on Windows too - especcially GoLand). But... but... I've always wanted (and willing to pay) a single IDE with any plugin that works in it - not just so many different versions... I'm a m…

They can't build the mothership, that means they only have one product. The problem I have is that they build these editors to their benefit, not mine. I had the same problem despite liking the tools initially. Between nvchad and vscode, I have all my bases covered for any situation/language.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#39

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

nprateem wrote: post #35
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

[flagged]

I see no flamebait. Your own post is much more flamebaity.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#40

Post by homebrewer »

solardev wrote: post #28
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

You forgot to add "IMHO". IDEA has fantastic UI, it's fully configurable and 100% usable through pre-assigned hotkeys. For example, fuzzy search is available everywhere, in every tool window, in the database window, in search results, etc. The same key combination (ctrl+alt+arrow up/down on my instance) can be used to jump between search results, symbol usages, TODOs, linter results, and so on. They thought through and implemented countless convenient features, most of which I will not be able to remember, but do use every day purely through muscle memory.

They're also now intent on destroying them in favor of the "new" primitive UI by trying to cater to new users (who are seemingly fine with never becoming power users). The good UI is still available through a plugin, but it's obvious it will be dropped in the next few years. I'm pretty sure they will lose the old guard like me right after that.

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