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Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

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Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#31

I wonder if there’s a market for a microwave with an IR camera and AI to estimate food weight and thermal conductivity. With accurate heat tracking, it’d only need a button to open the door and no knobs.

From all the way back in 2015 https://www.eater.com/2015/2/11/8022235/never-burn-popcorn-a...

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#32

I wonder if there’s a market for a microwave with an IR camera and AI to estimate food weight and thermal conductivity. With accurate heat tracking, it’d only need a button to open the door and no knobs.

I know someone who worked at a failed startup that attempted almost exactly this minus the AI. It used an IR camera paired with a secret method to beam form the microwaves to uniformly heat the food no matter how it was dispersed across a plate. This means you could have a pile of water rich vegetables and a steak on a plate and it would heat evenly. It worked great nut IIRC the issue that caused it to fail was calib…

This one?

https://www.eater.com/2015/2/11/8022235/never-burn-popcorn-a...

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want an IR camera and I want to input my desired temperature. That's all. Then I want the microwave to cycle on when the camera says everything is below temp, and cycle off as soon as any hot spot hits temp. Then wait for the hot spot(s) to dissipate before cycling back on. Seems like a foolproof way to cook evenly without overcooking. I kind of approximate it now by cooking something frozen on high for a couple mi…

When I was a kid(~1980), I remember our microwave had a removable temperature probe you could insert into the food. I don't know if it was just for informative purposes or if it controlled the cooking however.

I think a probe would be really great, because knowing the surface temp doesn't tell you how hot the thickest part of the food is. Although GP has an interesting point that if you cycle it for long enough, I guess the heat should approach equilibrium and the surface and insides should match.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want an IR camera and I want to input my desired temperature. That's all. Then I want the microwave to cycle on when the camera says everything is below temp, and cycle off as soon as any hot spot hits temp. Then wait for the hot spot(s) to dissipate before cycling back on. Seems like a foolproof way to cook evenly without overcooking. I kind of approximate it now by cooking something frozen on high for a couple mi…

When I was a kid(~1980), I remember our microwave had a removable temperature probe you could insert into the food. I don't know if it was just for informative purposes or if it controlled the cooking however.

Those disappeared, though, because they're solving the wrong problem.

Those would tell you when the center of your food was cooked, but by then the outside of your food was insanely over-cooked. Most of your chicken breast has turned into dried-out rubber.

The real problem isn't to get the center hot enough, that's easy. It's to prevent the outside from getting too hot. And you need a camera for that.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#35

I wonder if there’s a market for a microwave with an IR camera and AI to estimate food weight and thermal conductivity. With accurate heat tracking, it’d only need a button to open the door and no knobs.

I know someone who worked at a failed startup that attempted almost exactly this minus the AI. It used an IR camera paired with a secret method to beam form the microwaves to uniformly heat the food no matter how it was dispersed across a plate. This means you could have a pile of water rich vegetables and a steak on a plate and it would heat evenly. It worked great nut IIRC the issue that caused it to fail was calib…

Wow. I envy the guy who got to take the prototypes home. What a device that would be to have in your kitchen!!

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#36

I wonder if there’s a market for a microwave with an IR camera and AI to estimate food weight and thermal conductivity. With accurate heat tracking, it’d only need a button to open the door and no knobs.

I want an IR camera and I want to input my desired temperature. That's all. Then I want the microwave to cycle on when the camera says everything is below temp, and cycle off as soon as any hot spot hits temp. Then wait for the hot spot(s) to dissipate before cycling back on. Seems like a foolproof way to cook evenly without overcooking. I kind of approximate it now by cooking something frozen on high for a couple mi…

The only problem is that the camera would not survive the first time you use that oven. High power microwaves happily destroy all manner of electronics.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid(~1980), I remember our microwave had a removable temperature probe you could insert into the food. I don't know if it was just for informative purposes or if it controlled the cooking however.

I think a probe would be really great, because knowing the surface temp doesn't tell you how hot the thickest part of the food is. Although GP has an interesting point that if you cycle it for long enough, I guess the heat should approach equilibrium and the surface and insides should match.

Yup that's exactly the idea, for it to approach equilibrium.

And the microwave should be able to deduce how close it is by the rate of cooling of non-hotspots while the cycle is off. If it's cooling quickly, the inside is still frozen. If it isn't cooling at all, the inside is nice and warm.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#38
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can measure weight using a scale. We can make a solid guess at volume using visible light and a rotating view (already provided by the unfortunately-common carousels), with a bit of CV and math. We can therefore deduce density. We can measure outside temperature using IR. And we can measure the power put into the things being microwaved. And we can also measure the temperature and humidity of the air that is exhau…

Agree. I think 90% if people use their microwave to reheat leftovers or cook pre-packaged meals. All they need is a timer. And I'd prefer a dial to a keypad. My wife bought a countertop convection oven that has nearly 100 pre-defined cooking programs and 10 different "quick set" buttons. How do we actually use it? Set a temperature and time. With a dial. Could have be so much simpler.

>to reheat leftovers or cook pre-packaged meals

There was some experimentation early on--I even have a microwave cookbook--but, outside of some vegetables, very few people actually try to cook using one. And, yeah, I don't know the last time I did anything other than set time. I rarely even do anything other than full power. I do use the popcorn setting from time to time but even that is pretty much unnecessary if you listen to the popping.

I have to replace my microwave because it caught on fire in the middle of the night and I'll probably get a 4-in-1 Panasonic which will also replace my second oven which I basically never used.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#39
If even one person here doesn't yet have a fast-reading food thermometer I have to evangelize for them here. Good ones that instantly read used to cost like $75, and the cheap kind would take literal minutes to arrive at the real temp, but I think someone in China figured out the secret and brought the price down to like $14. Mine has a magnet and I keep it right next to the microwave and air fryer. It has made it tremendously easier to get food correctly heated through, in both devices.

The other thing I believe in strongly is, for most things, using 40-60% power and heating the food about twice as long as your original instincts say, for more even heating.

Re: Science of Microwave Ovens (2016)

#40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want an IR camera and I want to input my desired temperature. That's all. Then I want the microwave to cycle on when the camera says everything is below temp, and cycle off as soon as any hot spot hits temp. Then wait for the hot spot(s) to dissipate before cycling back on. Seems like a foolproof way to cook evenly without overcooking. I kind of approximate it now by cooking something frozen on high for a couple mi…

The only problem is that the camera would not survive the first time you use that oven. High power microwaves happily destroy all manner of electronics.

Surely it can be shielded?

IR and microwave wavelengths are nowhere even close to each other.

The grill in my microwave door lets through visible light. And the electronics already present in my microwave seem just fine.

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