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20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

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Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#31

Post by tombert »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #16
kevmo314 wrote: post #4

> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. > The federal workforce's normal attrition rate is about 6% a year, meaning some of those who've taken the buyout may have been planning to leave government service anyway. Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving...

I would not leave. Getting into the federal system was hard before, it's going to be near impossible now. For people who are not AI experts, engineers, doctors, etc. the federal government offers pay and benefits unparalleled to anything those same people would find in the private sector. Not to mention the job protections that really don't exist in any other private sector American company.

I feel like that used to be true, but I'm not sure it's been true for the last ~decade or so. My mom works for the federal government as an attorney. She likes her job, but she has mentioned to me that there are just as many layoff rounds, if not more, as you'd get in the private sector.

Moreover, there are a lot of things that are kind of bullshit; her office refused to provide paper towels or soap in the kitchen, so she had to spend her own money and bring them in herself.

Are soap or paper towels expensive? No, it's not beyond her means, but it's not like most private sector jobs "brag" about having paper towels near the sink, it's usually not considered a "perk".

ETA:

Just a note, these complaints go back to even the Obama years, I think.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#32

Post by remarkEon »

Shank wrote: post #15

I think the main issue for anyone wanting to take the offer is simply: this was never authorized by congress, so the money to pay people to September is questionable if it exists at best. Meanwhile, there's a government funding deadline on March 14, 2025. So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. It would be an i…

Have the exact payment details been released? Because I understood it as "you will get paid same as always through September, you just don't have to show up to work". Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that doesn't sound like a "buyout" in the traditional sense.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#33

Post by Jtsummers »

kevmo314 wrote: post #4

> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. > The federal workforce's normal attrition rate is about 6% a year, meaning some of those who've taken the buyout may have been planning to leave government service anyway. Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving...

>> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30.

Except it doesn't entitle them to stop working. OPM cannot tell workers to stop working or put them on leave. It's up to their agency to determine if they will keep them working or put them on leave. The framing by whoever is in OPM is disingenuous.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#35

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #22
bilekas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Critics argue the offer is illegal, there's no real guarantee people will get paid out, and it's something Congress would need to authorize. Give then history of this particular admistration & business', I personally wouldn't be too confident in actually getting paid up to Sept.

[flagged]

>> Congress technically already authorized it when it approved the FY 2025 budget. That's why they are getting paid to September. That money was already approved and appropriated by congress, signed into law, and is the budget for that agency. They're spending that money how congress directed them to, but in a way congress likely never anticipated.

No money has been appropriated beyond March 14th.

"the promise to pay employees beyond Mar. 14 is unauthorized. The Anti-Deficiency Act prohibits an agency from entering a contract 'before any appropriation is made unless authorized by law.' The deferred resignation program offers employees pay that is not currently appropriated. Current appropriations will expire on Mar. 14th and, therefore, agencies currently lack the legal authority to agree to pay employees beyond this date."

Source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/will-employees-who-resi...

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#36

Post by 656556h56h65h »

Shank wrote: post #15

I think the main issue for anyone wanting to take the offer is simply: this was never authorized by congress, so the money to pay people to September is questionable if it exists at best. Meanwhile, there's a government funding deadline on March 14, 2025. So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. It would be an i…

Well it is a good thing Trump and co are so well known for paying what they owe. These people are dumb if they take the offer. Job market has been cooked for 3 years already, these people will not fair well.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#37

Post by Jtsummers »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #22
bilekas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Critics argue the offer is illegal, there's no real guarantee people will get paid out, and it's something Congress would need to authorize. Give then history of this particular admistration & business', I personally wouldn't be too confident in actually getting paid up to Sept.

[flagged]

There was no FY 2025 budget. It's all CRs again, currently through 14 March.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#38

Post by drewda »

Molitor5901 wrote: post #16
kevmo314 wrote: post #4

> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. > The federal workforce's normal attrition rate is about 6% a year, meaning some of those who've taken the buyout may have been planning to leave government service anyway. Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving...

I would not leave. Getting into the federal system was hard before, it's going to be near impossible now. For people who are not AI experts, engineers, doctors, etc. the federal government offers pay and benefits unparalleled to anything those same people would find in the private sector. Not to mention the job protections that really don't exist in any other private sector American company.

Here's a detailed look at how total compensation compares between the private sector and federal positions by education level: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60235

The key takeaways:

- staffers with high school or some college make more, on average, working for federal gov't, primarily due to the benefits. But it's an exaggeration to describe the difference as "unparalleled"

- comp is roughly equivalent for holders of bachelor's

- comp for holders of professional degrees or doctorates (JD, MD, MBA, PhD) is significantly lower on average for federal jobs

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#39

Post by tombert »

varsketiz wrote: post #30
tombert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect that there really isn't nearly as much "waste" here as Musk is alleging, so we are going to be forced to re-hire people, while still paying a ton of workers for 8 months of no work. This doesn't seem "efficient" to me, but "efficient" is a word that doesn't actually mean anything without context, which they don't provide.

Well, it depends on what goals Trump and Musk consider worthwhile. Just hypothetically, if they dont consider healthcare for all a worthwhile goal - possibly every dollar spent on Obamacare is waste from their perspective. I think they will find a lot of waste - question is if people in the USA will agree.

Well that's what I mean, "efficiency" is a term that doesn't mean anything in isolation, and because of that they can define it to mean whatever they want it to mean and declare victory as a result.

I also think there might be some shady math going on; they're counting every canceled thing as "savings", but I don't think they're going to count the cost of rehiring the lost workers and redoing these contracts.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#40

Post by n0rdy »

I've always found this approach of reducing the number of employees unwise from the company perspective (but pretty good for the employees, though).

While the unsatisfied employees are the target, my observations indicate that a high percentage of active and skilled people are willing to take this offer, as they are sure that they will find a new place within a reasonable time, so it's basically, free money. And those are the people that the company should try to keep as much as it could. While the "give me a task with the perfect description, and I will do it" folks will stay until they are kicked out, as, usually, they are not up to taking the initiative.

That's why I saw how the companies that were changing the rules in the process: "well, it's an offer, but your manager needs to approve that first", and other tricks to be able to reject it for the top performers. Needless to say, it leads to the bad moral.

However, the companies I'm mentioning had way fewer employees than the federal workforce, so the chances are that with that size it's impossible to do it the "right" way.

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